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Fan Forums => The RPGPundit's Own Forum => Topic started by: Mordred Pendragon on May 04, 2018, 02:23:12 PM

Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on May 04, 2018, 02:23:12 PM
So, recent events have made me seriously doubt my presence on this forum. I would have abandoned ship completely had it not been for Spinachat inspiring me to stay for a little while longer.

Maybe I can talk some sense and through the power of reason, set things right.

Pundit, I like you. I really do, even if we have our disagreements. i admire your dedication to free speech and our shared love of the OSR. In fact, I envy you in that regard. You successfully published several OSR games, and I aspire to do the same one day.

But this whole D&DGate nonsense has got to stop. The last thing the RPG hobby needs is another GamerGate-style fiasco. All that will do is attract even more unwanted attention from the SJW's and Neo-Bolsheviks on the Regressive Left, and ultimately vindicate RPG.net, a wretched hive of Goths, Punks, Hipsters, Commies, and other regressive scum.

Do you want to get even more leftists barking at you? Because that's what will happen if you invoke the spirit of GamerGate in the RPG hobby. You'll be playing directly into Big Purple's hands. These Neo-Bolshevik fucks still haven't quit whining about GamerGate, even though it's been dead since 2015 and everyone else has stopped caring, even the most adamant Pro-GamerGate people have moved on. But the SJW's are still raving on and on about it. They think GamerGate is some internet version of the Waffen-SS or the Illuminati or some crap, don't fuel their delusions.

Your idea for a D&DGate movement will only fan the flames more and it will end badly. And with the recent bannings of several forum regulars, many of whom leaned conservative and were generally in your political camp (such as Ulairi and fearsomepirate), I am worried that you will become the very thing you hate and this site will turn into a Right-Wing version of RPG.net

I know deep down that is not what you really want. You may like the online attention and controversy you are getting now, but it will be bad for you and bad for the hobby in the long run.

Pundit, you are better than the Gothic-Punk communist scumbags at RPG.net, and you should always keep that in mind. Hold true to your morals and principles of free speech and free expression. Don't just ban users for disagreeing with you or for getting into petty squabbles with you.

Banning people for mere disagreement is what the guyliner-wearing swine at RPG.net do, and I know you and I are both in agreement in how much we hate those guys. Seriously, those twinkle-toed Anarcho-Communist pricks are incontrovertible proof that Punk Rock was a mistake.

All I ask of you is that you get back to your roots and rediscover your love of gaming and free expression. Forget about being a lightning rod for online political controversy and instead run a game or join a game.

Sit back, relax, stop getting worked up over political controversies (some of which you have injected yourself into), and instead of focusing on D&DGate, why don't you play a D&D game with me or any of your established gaming buddies? Remember, the whole point of RPG's is to have fun. It's about fun and creativity, not gatekeeping and political grandstanding.

So, I say forget about this idea for an RPG equivalent of GamerGate, and instead just play some games. Smoke some cigars, drink a glass of your favorite whiskey, listen to some Creedence Clearwater Revival, relax, and play some D&D or something.

Get your game on and go play! Live long and prosper, be happy!

The best way to stick it to the SJW Leftists in our hobby is to ignore them and be successful and happy despite their whining.

Living well is the best revenge.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Crawford Tillinghast on May 05, 2018, 06:44:10 AM
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1037534
So, recent events have made me seriously doubt my presence on this forum. I would have abandoned ship completely had it not been for Spinachat inspiring me to stay for a little while longer.

Maybe I can talk some sense and through the power of reason, set things right.

Your idea for a D&DGate movement will only fan the flames more and it will end badly. And with the recent bannings of several forum regulars, many of whom leaned conservative and were generally in your political camp (such as Ulairi and fearsomepirate), I am worried that you will become the very thing you hate and this site will turn into a Right-Wing version of RPG.net

Pundit, you are better than the Gothic-Punk communist scumbags at RPG.net, and you should always keep that in mind. Hold true to your morals and principles of free speech and free expression. Don't just ban users for disagreeing with you or for getting into petty squabbles with you.

Banning people for mere disagreement is what the guyliner-wearing swine at RPG.net do, and I know you and I are both in agreement in how much we hate those guys. Seriously, those twinkle-toed Anarcho-Communist pricks are incontrovertible proof that Punk Rock was a mistake.

The best way to stick it to the SJW Leftists in our hobby is to ignore them and be successful and happy despite their whining.

Living well is the best revenge.


Sammy,
I think yours is the letter all of us would have liked to write to RpgNET:  How much we dislike the policies there, and our disappointment in the moderators who enforce those policies with such verve.  But why bother?  A post like this (even without the purple prose) would simply be locked as a "press conference" and a curt "We don't take third party appeals."  Followed up by a note in Infraction of a three month ban for "sass".  If the post wasn't the first time, then it would be a "not a good fit..." reply.

That is the essential difference.  Let's look at the two bannings you pointed out.  Here's my recollection of the thread (It's not like we can't go back and look, right?)

"Don't go there!"
"Are you trying to get banned?"
"This is how you get banned, drop it."
"Last warning."
"OK, if you insist."

Which is a lot different from "AH!  My Sacred Cow! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE! BANNED!"  That is SOP on most boards.

So while Pundy is...eccentric, I really don't see the Nietche's Abyss that others do.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: jeff37923 on May 05, 2018, 07:16:54 AM
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1037534
So, recent events have made me seriously doubt my presence on this forum. I would have abandoned ship completely had it not been for Spinachat inspiring me to stay for a little while longer.

Maybe I can talk some sense and through the power of reason, set things right.

Pundit, I like you. I really do, even if we have our disagreements. i admire your dedication to free speech and our shared love of the OSR. In fact, I envy you in that regard. You successfully published several OSR games, and I aspire to do the same one day.

But this whole D&DGate nonsense has got to stop. The last thing the RPG hobby needs is another GamerGate-style fiasco. All that will do is attract even more unwanted attention from the SJW's and Neo-Bolsheviks on the Regressive Left, and ultimately vindicate RPG.net, a wretched hive of Goths, Punks, Hipsters, Commies, and other regressive scum.

Do you want to get even more leftists barking at you? Because that's what will happen if you invoke the spirit of GamerGate in the RPG hobby. You'll be playing directly into Big Purple's hands. These Neo-Bolshevik fucks still haven't quit whining about GamerGate, even though it's been dead since 2015 and everyone else has stopped caring, even the most adamant Pro-GamerGate people have moved on. But the SJW's are still raving on and on about it. They think GamerGate is some internet version of the Waffen-SS or the Illuminati or some crap, don't fuel their delusions.

Your idea for a D&DGate movement will only fan the flames more and it will end badly. And with the recent bannings of several forum regulars, many of whom leaned conservative and were generally in your political camp (such as Ulairi and fearsomepirate), I am worried that you will become the very thing you hate and this site will turn into a Right-Wing version of RPG.net

I know deep down that is not what you really want. You may like the online attention and controversy you are getting now, but it will be bad for you and bad for the hobby in the long run.

Pundit, you are better than the Gothic-Punk communist scumbags at RPG.net, and you should always keep that in mind. Hold true to your morals and principles of free speech and free expression. Don't just ban users for disagreeing with you or for getting into petty squabbles with you.

Banning people for mere disagreement is what the guyliner-wearing swine at RPG.net do, and I know you and I are both in agreement in how much we hate those guys. Seriously, those twinkle-toed Anarcho-Communist pricks are incontrovertible proof that Punk Rock was a mistake.

All I ask of you is that you get back to your roots and rediscover your love of gaming and free expression. Forget about being a lightning rod for online political controversy and instead run a game or join a game. Hell, I'll even send you an invitation for a gonzo OSR game I am planning. You're welcome to join if you want.

https://rpgpub.com/threads/play-by-post-od-d-osr-in-the-autumn-woods.1270/

Sit back, relax, stop getting worked up over political controversies (some of which you have injected yourself into), and instead of focusing on D&DGate, why don't you play a D&D game with me or any of your established gaming buddies? Remember, the whole point of RPG's is to have fun. It's about fun and creativity, not gatekeeping and political grandstanding.

So, I say forget about this idea for an RPG equivalent of GamerGate, and instead just play some games. Smoke some cigars, drink a glass of your favorite whiskey, listen to some Creedence Clearwater Revival, relax, and play some D&D or something.

Get your game on and go play! Live long and prosper, be happy!

The best way to stick it to the SJW Leftists in our hobby is to ignore them and be successful and happy despite their whining.

Living well is the best revenge.

...

Quote from: Edmund Burke
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.

Do not try to dissuade Pundit from taking up the sword if that is what he desires.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: ArrozConLeche on May 05, 2018, 08:04:26 AM
The regressive left already took over RPGNet, and other forums. It's been years now. I think the ship for an effective D&DGate already sailed by, but by all means it's worth a try.

I suggest that if you're serious about it, you open a subreddit specifically dedicated to this purpose, because this forum is not really open enough.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: waltshumate on May 05, 2018, 08:17:50 AM
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1037534
The best way to stick it to the SJW Leftists in our hobby is to ignore them and be successful and happy despite their whining.
.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2466[/ATTACH]
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on May 05, 2018, 08:20:25 AM
Quote from: ArrozConLeche;1037670
The regressive left already took over RPGNet, and other forums. It's been years now. I think the ship for an effective D&DGate already sailed by, but by all means it's worth a try.

I suggest that if you're serious about it, you open a subreddit specifically dedicated to this purpose, because this forum is not really open enough.

I agree completely, and I don't want this place turning into a mirror image of RPG.net

That is why I am trying to reason with Pundit.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: S'mon on May 05, 2018, 12:32:12 PM
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1037534
Living well is the best revenge.

Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on May 05, 2018, 01:08:44 PM
The irony of how this place has virtually, and almost literally, become the "mirror universe" RPGnet is delicious.  It pairs extremely well with Chateauneuf-de-Pape.

Contrary to what the screeching, shit flinging monkeys around here want to believe, the screeching, shit flinging monkeys of RPGnet are not evil.  RPGnet is merely proof that you can't simultaneously be a "safe space" for everyone, taken to its logical end by the ubiquitous human unwillingness to admit one is wrong.  The natural consequence of trying to enforce "safe space for everyone" is that either you get a monoculture where everyone is part of the same group, or people talk about nothing more controversial than the color of the sky.

No evil needed, just naive good intentions and unwillingness to admit one is wrong.

But, of course, I'm going to get shouted down, because, as Machiavelli said, nothing unites a dispirited mob as well as giving them a common enemy.  If RPGnet did not exist, the "anti-SJWs" would have no identity to cling to.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 05, 2018, 02:31:02 PM
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1037534
But this whole D&DGate nonsense has got to stop. The last thing the RPG hobby needs is another GamerGate-style fiasco. All that will do is attract even more unwanted attention from the SJW's and Neo-Bolsheviks on the Regressive Left, and ultimately vindicate RPG.net, a wretched hive of Goths, Punks, Hipsters, Commies, and other regressive scum.

Physician, heal thyself.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: jeff37923 on May 05, 2018, 05:40:13 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1037698
The irony of how this place has virtually, and almost literally, become the "mirror universe" RPGnet is delicious.  It pairs extremely well with Chateauneuf-de-Pape.

Contrary to what the screeching, shit flinging monkeys around here want to believe, the screeching, shit flinging monkeys of RPGnet are not evil.  RPGnet is merely proof that you can't simultaneously be a "safe space" for everyone, taken to its logical end by the ubiquitous human unwillingness to admit one is wrong.  The natural consequence of trying to enforce "safe space for everyone" is that either you get a monoculture where everyone is part of the same group, or people talk about nothing more controversial than the color of the sky.

No evil needed, just naive good intentions and unwillingness to admit one is wrong.

But, of course, I'm going to get shouted down, because, as Machiavelli said, nothing unites a dispirited mob as well as giving them a common enemy.  If RPGnet did not exist, the "anti-SJWs" would have no identity to cling to.

....

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2467[/ATTACH]
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on May 05, 2018, 05:59:25 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1037698
The irony of how this place has virtually, and almost literally, become the "mirror universe" RPGnet is delicious.  It pairs extremely well with Chateauneuf-de-Pape.

Contrary to what the screeching, shit flinging monkeys around here want to believe, the screeching, shit flinging monkeys of RPGnet are not evil.  RPGnet is merely proof that you can't simultaneously be a "safe space" for everyone, taken to its logical end by the ubiquitous human unwillingness to admit one is wrong.  The natural consequence of trying to enforce "safe space for everyone" is that either you get a monoculture where everyone is part of the same group, or people talk about nothing more controversial than the color of the sky.

No evil needed, just naive good intentions and unwillingness to admit one is wrong.

But, of course, I'm going to get shouted down, because, as Machiavelli said, nothing unites a dispirited mob as well as giving them a common enemy.  If RPGnet did not exist, the "anti-SJWs" would have no identity to cling to.

This guy gets it.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: S'mon on May 05, 2018, 06:59:02 PM
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1037721
This guy gets it.

No. No, he really doesn't.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 05, 2018, 07:01:43 PM
Quote from: S'mon;1037729
No. No, he really doesn't.

This guy gets it.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on May 05, 2018, 07:02:39 PM
Quote from: S'mon;1037729
No. No, he really doesn't.

I politely disagree.

As much as I hate RPG.net, they are not a boogeyman.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: jeff37923 on May 05, 2018, 07:30:38 PM
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1037731
As much as I hate RPG.net, they are not a boogeyman.

You're right, they are more of a Cautionary Tale of How Not To Moderate.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on May 05, 2018, 08:29:58 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;1037717
....

[ATTACH=CONFIG]2467[/ATTACH]

You used the Death Star explosion from the revised edition rather than the original.

Therefore, sir, I say "Bah" to you.  Bah, do you hear me?  Bah.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on May 05, 2018, 08:31:01 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;1037732
You're right, they are more of a Cautionary Tale of How Not To Moderate.

Precisely.  "The Road To Hell is Paved with Good Intentions" meets "The Law of Unintended Consequences."
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on May 05, 2018, 09:04:10 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;1037732
You're right, they are more of a Cautionary Tale of How Not To Moderate.

Eh, I'll allow it.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Warboss Squee on May 05, 2018, 10:46:37 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1037740
Precisely.  "The Road To Hell is Paved with Good Intentions" meets "The Law of Unintended Consequences."

I'd buy that if every time they hit the bottom of the pit they've dug, they didn't break out jackhammers.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on May 06, 2018, 02:31:09 AM
Quote from: Warboss Squee;1037756
I'd buy that if every time they hit the bottom of the pit they've dug, they didn't break out jackhammers.

People will do almost anything to avoid admitting they're wrong.  Not just "liberals" or "leftists" or "social justice warriors" or "RPGnet."  There's been more articles than I can count over the last ten or so years talking about how people in general do just about everything BUT make logical decisions.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: jeff37923 on May 06, 2018, 07:02:55 AM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1037739
You used the Death Star explosion from the revised edition rather than the original.

Therefore, sir, I say "Bah" to you.  Bah, do you hear me?  Bah.

Your admission betrays you. You are indeed a Star Wars fan to spot that.

I accept your "Bah" and raise you an "NERD!" :D

See, this goes back to an outside group defining what gamers are and what a gaming forum should be. Should a gaming forum be like RPGNet with its ideologue moderation, character assassination, and belief in guilty on hearsay? Or should a gaming forum be like here which allows free speech and open discussion, even with its warts and all. Do we want gamers to be defined by the pearl clutching sycophants of RPGNet or do we want gamers of all types to be recognized and celebrated?
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Trond on May 06, 2018, 09:48:12 AM
Quote from: jeff37923;1037732
You're right, they are more of a Cautionary Tale of How Not To Moderate.


This, to a very high degree. Last I checked, it was as if they had intentionally been promoting the most highly strung, easily triggered (and preferably trans) people to mod status.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Trond on May 06, 2018, 10:09:44 AM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1037770
People will do almost anything to avoid admitting they're wrong.  ........


Oh yeah. I have had discussions both here and on RPG.net that turned.....bizarre because someone could not admit that they had no clue what they were talking about.

Still, I do get a bit more of the "lost beyond redemption" feel from RPG.net. Here, you have to grow a thick skin, and endure some pretty nasty shit. Over there you have to become part of the cult or get banned. I seriously could not be myself over there, and when I tried I got banned. I also received PMs from a woman who told me the same thing, she could not be herself at all (my impression of her "problem" was that she is a woman who *trigger alert* actually likes men. I know, shocking).
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Tait Ransom on May 06, 2018, 10:43:44 AM
Quote from: Trond;1037788
Oh yeah. I have had discussions both here and on RPG.net that turned.....bizarre because someone could not admit that they had no clue what they were talking about.

Still, I do get a bit more of the "lost beyond redemption" feel from RPG.net. Here, you have to grow a thick skin, and endure some pretty nasty shit. Over there you have to become part of the cult or get banned. I seriously could not be myself over there, and when I tried I got banned. I also received PMs from a woman who told me the same thing, she could not be herself at all (my impression of her "problem" was that she is a woman who *trigger alert* actually likes men. I know, shocking).


Yeah, I get the temptation to just go "a pox on both your houses," but I'll take the environment here over what we have over there any day of the week.  And that's a shame, because before the dark times, I had some great conversations with some people who were very much different than me.  It's really too bad that they got so quick to shut down so-called offensive discussions ...I learned a lot in those days.

I'd much rather be here, where you need to have a thick skin sometimes, than always wonder if my current post will be the one that gets me booted.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: CarlD. on May 06, 2018, 10:51:10 AM
Quote from: Trond;1037786
This, to a very high degree. Last I checked, it was as if they had intentionally been promoting the most highly strung, easily triggered (and preferably trans) people to mod status.


As I understand, the mods select new moderators among themselves which creates a feedback looks and enourages groupthink as well as aggravating some of the worst tendencies of Forum Moderators and creates an Elite Club atmoshere to being staff instead being what amounts to an unpaid janitor.

Quote from: Trond;1037788
Oh yeah. I have had discussions both here and on RPG.net that turned.....bizarre because someone could not admit that they had no clue what they were talking about.

Still, I do get a bit more of the "lost beyond redemption" feel from RPG.net. Here, you have to grow a thick skin, and endure some pretty nasty shit. Over there you have to become part of the cult or get banned. I seriously could not be myself over there, and when I tried I got banned. I also received PMs from a woman who told me the same thing, she could not be herself at all (my impression of her "problem" was that she is a woman who *trigger alert* actually likes men. I know, shocking).


Getting by here and on rpg.net is helped by judicous use of IL. There are no-go topics on both sites but here the enforcement is more driven by the community members not the staff, at least not until recently.

Like you mention, I've heard from the some women that ended up leaving rpg.net for its attitude about women that didn't fit the mold. Ironically the majority of them were pissed off for the way they were treated when they chimed in on threads ostensibly intended to defend women and/or increase their interest in rpgs like Anti-cheesecake threads.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: HappyDaze on May 06, 2018, 12:05:09 PM
Quote from: CarlD.;1037792
Getting by here and on rpg.net is helped by judicous use of IL.
Do you mean Ignore List? I had to do a search, and this is the only thing that seemed to make sense. If that's what you mean, then I'm not sure I agree. There are other forums where I've had to build up a list of ignored users (like the FFG forums), but here I haven't really needed to do so. Of course, part of that is that I just don't invest a lot of emotion into most of the topics I see here.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: CarlD. on May 06, 2018, 12:59:18 PM
Quote from: HappyDaze;1037800
Do you mean Ignore List? I had to do a search, and this is the only thing that seemed to make sense. If that's what you mean, then I'm not sure I agree. There are other forums where I've had to build up a list of ignored users (like the FFG forums), but here I haven't really needed to do so. Of course, part of that is that I just don't invest a lot of emotion into most of the topics I see here.

Yes, I meant Ignore List. Individual experiences are going to vary. That's why I used the term judicious. Its up to the person in question and the site. I've had to employ it a great deal on here and rpg.net but hardly at all on some other forums.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Trond on May 06, 2018, 01:01:45 PM
Quote from: CarlD.;1037792

Like you mention, I've heard from the some women that ended up leaving rpg.net for its attitude about women that didn't fit the mold. Ironically the majority of them were pissed off for the way they were treated when they chimed in on threads ostensibly intended to defend women and/or increase their interest in rpgs like Anti-cheesecake threads.

Absolutely. I also made the mistake of pointing out on RPG.net that, after years of promoting woman-friendly policies, and banning people who made so much as a joke that could be interpreted as "misogynist", they still only had about 15% women according to their own poll. So all the shit was for nothing, and actually drove some women away. I have also seen the tendency creeping into RPG books. Just looking through some books in a gaming store yesterday, images of "strong" women ( i.e. women behaving like men) are now very common (I also noticed some images of women beating up men, but of course no men beating up women. Because equality :D). The store had gaming sessions going on; I counted 3 women out of about 30 players. I think we have to face it: RPGs will never be particularly popular among women. It's always cool when a few women decide to join in, but maybe trying too hard is one of the mistakes that people do.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: jeff37923 on May 06, 2018, 01:27:17 PM
Quote from: Trond;1037803
Absolutely. I also made the mistake of pointing out on RPG.net that, after years of promoting woman-friendly policies, and banning people who made so much as a joke that could be interpreted as "misogynist", they still only had about 15% women according to their own poll. So all the shit was for nothing, and actually drove some women away. I have also seen the tendency creeping into RPG books. Just looking through some books in a gaming store yesterday, images of "strong" women ( i.e. women behaving like men) are now very common (I also noticed some images of women beating up men, but of course no men beating up women. Because equality :D). The store had gaming sessions going on; I counted 3 women out of about 30 players. I think we have to face it: RPGs will never be particularly popular among women. It's always cool when a few women decide to join in, but maybe trying too hard is one of the mistakes that people do.

I wonder if these people who have been doing this just to attract women into the hobby are actually sending the message that They Are Desperate And Trying Too Hard instead.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on May 06, 2018, 02:47:44 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;1037805
I wonder if these people who have been doing this just to attract women into the hobby are actually sending the message that They Are Desperate And Trying Too Hard instead.

I also wonder that myself sometimes...
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on May 06, 2018, 04:57:08 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;1037779
Your admission betrays you. You are indeed a Star Wars fan to spot that.

I accept your "Bah" and raise you an "NERD!" :D

See, this goes back to an outside group defining what gamers are and what a gaming forum should be. Should a gaming forum be like RPGNet with its ideologue moderation, character assassination, and belief in guilty on hearsay? Or should a gaming forum be like here which allows free speech and open discussion, even with its warts and all. Do we want gamers to be defined by the pearl clutching sycophants of RPGNet or do we want gamers of all types to be recognized and celebrated?

You say "nerd" like it's a bad thing.

I'm 63 years old and I still play D&D, have my own lightsaber I built the lighting circuitry for myself, and still build model trains.  I may not be the most self-aware monkey in the tree, but even I've figured out I'm a nerd. :D
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on May 06, 2018, 05:01:48 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;1037805
I wonder if these people who have been doing this just to attract women into the hobby are actually sending the message that They Are Desperate And Trying Too Hard instead.

Maybe.

But model railroading is a mostly-male hobby too.  Interestingly over the last 30 years or so I've seen the percentage increase from almost zero 30 years ago to 10 to 30% now.  More interestingly, most male modelers no longer think a female modeler is unusual, and the magazines are free of "how to get the little woman interested" articles.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on May 06, 2018, 06:33:39 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1037816
You say "nerd" like it's a bad thing.

I'm 63 years old and I still play D&D, have my own lightsaber I built the lighting circuitry for myself, and still build model trains.  I may not be the most self-aware monkey in the tree, but even I've figured out I'm a nerd. :D

You sir, have won the internet.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: HappyDaze on May 06, 2018, 07:33:39 PM
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1037821
You sir, have won the internet.

Now he just has to fight off Facebook, Russian hackers, and all the other pretenders to his throne.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on May 06, 2018, 08:46:40 PM
Gronan, I'm not sure if you're an anime fan. But even if you are not, you should really watch Neon Genesis Evangelion.

It is fucking awesome.

Misato Katsuragi is best waifu.

Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: jeff37923 on May 06, 2018, 09:13:36 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1037817
Maybe.

But model railroading is a mostly-male hobby too.  Interestingly over the last 30 years or so I've seen the percentage increase from almost zero 30 years ago to 10 to 30% now.  More interestingly, most male modelers no longer think a female modeler is unusual, and the magazines are free of "how to get the little woman interested" articles.

Do you think that this might be just a "phase" of the hobby?
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: RPGPundit on May 06, 2018, 10:40:10 PM
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1037534
So, recent events have made me seriously doubt my presence on this forum. I would have abandoned ship completely had it not been for Spinachat inspiring me to stay for a little while longer.

Maybe I can talk some sense and through the power of reason, set things right.

Pundit, I like you. I really do, even if we have our disagreements. i admire your dedication to free speech and our shared love of the OSR. In fact, I envy you in that regard. You successfully published several OSR games, and I aspire to do the same one day.

But this whole D&DGate nonsense has got to stop. The last thing the RPG hobby needs is another GamerGate-style fiasco. All that will do is attract even more unwanted attention from the SJW's and Neo-Bolsheviks on the Regressive Left, and ultimately vindicate RPG.net, a wretched hive of Goths, Punks, Hipsters, Commies, and other regressive scum.

Do you want to get even more leftists barking at you? Because that's what will happen if you invoke the spirit of GamerGate in the RPG hobby. You'll be playing directly into Big Purple's hands. These Neo-Bolshevik fucks still haven't quit whining about GamerGate, even though it's been dead since 2015 and everyone else has stopped caring, even the most adamant Pro-GamerGate people have moved on. But the SJW's are still raving on and on about it. They think GamerGate is some internet version of the Waffen-SS or the Illuminati or some crap, don't fuel their delusions.

Your idea for a D&DGate movement will only fan the flames more and it will end badly. And with the recent bannings of several forum regulars, many of whom leaned conservative and were generally in your political camp (such as Ulairi and fearsomepirate), I am worried that you will become the very thing you hate and this site will turn into a Right-Wing version of RPG.net

I know deep down that is not what you really want. You may like the online attention and controversy you are getting now, but it will be bad for you and bad for the hobby in the long run.

Pundit, you are better than the Gothic-Punk communist scumbags at RPG.net, and you should always keep that in mind. Hold true to your morals and principles of free speech and free expression. Don't just ban users for disagreeing with you or for getting into petty squabbles with you.

Banning people for mere disagreement is what the guyliner-wearing swine at RPG.net do, and I know you and I are both in agreement in how much we hate those guys. Seriously, those twinkle-toed Anarcho-Communist pricks are incontrovertible proof that Punk Rock was a mistake.

All I ask of you is that you get back to your roots and rediscover your love of gaming and free expression. Forget about being a lightning rod for online political controversy and instead run a game or join a game.

Sit back, relax, stop getting worked up over political controversies (some of which you have injected yourself into), and instead of focusing on D&DGate, why don't you play a D&D game with me or any of your established gaming buddies? Remember, the whole point of RPG's is to have fun. It's about fun and creativity, not gatekeeping and political grandstanding.

So, I say forget about this idea for an RPG equivalent of GamerGate, and instead just play some games. Smoke some cigars, drink a glass of your favorite whiskey, listen to some Creedence Clearwater Revival, relax, and play some D&D or something.

Get your game on and go play! Live long and prosper, be happy!

The best way to stick it to the SJW Leftists in our hobby is to ignore them and be successful and happy despite their whining.

Living well is the best revenge.


The hilarious thing in all this is that you, with all your ridiculous nonsense and your waifu and your pretend-paganism and your teenage drama, think you've got something to teach me.  It's really very college-kid-SJW of you.

To paraphrase Jordan Peterson, "six years ago you were twelve".
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on May 06, 2018, 11:20:07 PM
Quote from: RPGPundit;1037837
The hilarious thing in all this is that you, with all your ridiculous nonsense and your waifu and your pretend-paganism and your teenage drama, think you've got something to teach me.  It's really very college-kid-SJW of you.

To paraphrase Jordan Peterson, "six years ago you were twelve".

I'm just worried about you going into some dark places, that's all.

I don't want to see one of my RPG heroes go off the deep end.

Just some food for thought, that's all. I'm legit worried about you, bud.

Meanwhile, enjoy one of my favorite songs.

Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Ratman_tf on May 07, 2018, 02:02:01 AM
Quote from: Doc Sammy;1037856
I don't want to see one of my RPG heroes go off the deep end.

Heroes are humans. Don't put them on pedestals.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on May 07, 2018, 02:31:30 AM
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1037884
Heroes are humans. Don't put them on pedestals.

Fair point.

Still, it makes me feel bad to see Pundit slowly turning into something entirely different. But what are you going to do?
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Spinachcat on May 07, 2018, 03:42:19 AM
Doc, you wrote a good OP, but RPGPundit has his reasons and I think you actually nailed a couple of them. He wants a full on confrontation with as many SJWs a possible, in the biggest flamewar possible, because out of that chaos and fury [and hopefully MSM attention], he feels he will triumph and many will gather to his banner. Also, note that GamerGate launched some YT careers...

Stick around, I'm sure it will get interesting.


Quote from: Warboss Squee;1037756
I'd buy that if every time they hit the bottom of the pit they've dug, they didn't break out jackhammers.

LoLz mining!
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Omega on May 07, 2018, 07:32:48 AM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1037698
The irony of how this place has virtually, and almost literally, become the "mirror universe" RPGnet is delicious.  It pairs extremely well with Chateauneuf-de-Pape.

Contrary to what the screeching, shit flinging monkeys around here want to believe, the screeching, shit flinging monkeys of RPGnet are not evil.  RPGnet is merely proof that you can't simultaneously be a "safe space" for everyone, taken to its logical end by the ubiquitous human unwillingness to admit one is wrong.  The natural consequence of trying to enforce "safe space for everyone" is that either you get a monoculture where everyone is part of the same group, or people talk about nothing more controversial than the color of the sky.

No evil needed, just naive good intentions and unwillingness to admit one is wrong.

But, of course, I'm going to get shouted down, because, as Machiavelli said, nothing unites a dispirited mob as well as giving them a common enemy.  If RPGnet did not exist, the "anti-SJWs" would have no identity to cling to.


BGG is well on its way to that. You cant even gall someone a troll over there and defending yourself from trolling will often get you banned or privately asked by the mods to delete your own post. Its gotten gradually worse over there as they try to make the place ever so safe for (trolls and not so much anyone else). Topped off with covert censoring, and other moderator tricks. I hear EnWorlds gone the same route as RPG.net. But I've never posted over there so have no idea how far gone they are.

Seems to be a trend with the larger fora. At some point they pick up some bad moderators and things go to hell. I saw two RP, and one artist forum go that route. In one case disgruntled members left to make their own place. And then proceeded to fuck it up even worse.

As for here. People were warned to cut it out and then proceeded to antagonize the moderator or ignore the warnings. Theres been fairly few bannings here that someone didnt make an effort to get. And personally theres one or two here I'd have banned long ago because they contribute nothing other than rampant trolling or incessant drive-by pissing on some topic.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Haffrung on May 07, 2018, 08:37:20 AM
Quote from: Spinachcat;1037889
Doc, you wrote a good OP, but RPGPundit has his reasons and I think you actually nailed a couple of them. He wants a full on confrontation with as many SJWs a possible, in the biggest flamewar possible, because out of that chaos and fury [and hopefully MSM attention], he feels he will triumph and many will gather to his banner. Also, note that GamerGate launched some YT careers...

Yeah, it's pretty clear this is all part of a campaign by Pundit to raise his profile as a social media personality. He desperately wants to become A Person of Consequence in the online political sphere.

Quote from: Omega;1037900
BGG is well on its way to that. You cant even gall someone a troll over there and defending yourself from trolling will often get you banned or privately asked by the mods to delete your own post. Its gotten gradually worse over there as they try to make the place ever so safe for (trolls and not so much anyone else). Topped off with covert censoring, and other moderator tricks. I hear EnWorlds gone the same route as RPG.net. But I've never posted over there so have no idea how far gone they are.

I do worry about BGG. Not only because I'm more invested in it as a site (I've been a member since the first week it launched), but because it has a user base an order of magnitude larger than RPGnet ever was, and it will be a bad sign indeed if it succumbs to the identarian crusade. It's user base is an almost perfect match with the identarian cohort in age, income, education, etc. And SJWs have been making furious and unrelenting assaults on the ramparts there for years now, with no sign of being deterred by the lack of tangible gains. If BGG falls, it will be a terrible blow to liberal values in the geek sphere. Unlike RPGnet, game publishers are highly reliant on BGG as a gateway and virtual storefront. My worst fear is the owner (who seems a typically moderate and tolerant Gen Xer) cashes out, and a True Believer buys the site.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: crkrueger on May 07, 2018, 09:30:31 AM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1037698
The irony of how this place has virtually, and almost literally, become the "mirror universe" RPGnet is delicious.  It pairs extremely well with Chateauneuf-de-Pape.

Contrary to what the screeching, shit flinging monkeys around here want to believe, the screeching, shit flinging monkeys of RPGnet are not evil.  RPGnet is merely proof that you can't simultaneously be a "safe space" for everyone, taken to its logical end by the ubiquitous human unwillingness to admit one is wrong.  The natural consequence of trying to enforce "safe space for everyone" is that either you get a monoculture where everyone is part of the same group, or people talk about nothing more controversial than the color of the sky.

No evil needed, just naive good intentions and unwillingness to admit one is wrong.

But, of course, I'm going to get shouted down, because, as Machiavelli said, nothing unites a dispirited mob as well as giving them a common enemy.  If RPGnet did not exist, the "anti-SJWs" would have no identity to cling to.


Except for one small point - the whole point of the D&Dgate thing seems to not be about RPG.net as much as it is about companies both large and small having designers and publishers who seek to inject their political viewpoints into gaming through their games, as well as silence alternative viewpoints through social media attacks and boycotts.

I don't think the D&Dgate thing is a good idea (especially using that name), but sorry Mike, I think you're being disingenuous in your simplistic dismissal of the idea.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: jhkim on May 07, 2018, 01:41:44 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;1037914
Except for one small point - the whole point of the D&Dgate thing seems to not be about RPG.net as much as it is about companies both large and small having designers and publishers who seek to inject their political viewpoints into gaming through their games, as well as silence alternative viewpoints through social media attacks and boycotts.

I don't think the D&Dgate thing is a good idea (especially using that name), but sorry Mike, I think you're being disingenuous in your simplistic dismissal of the idea.
I am opposed to silencing opposing viewpoints, or boycotts over mainstream political views.

However, if some people want to publish games with political content and other people want to buy them, that's supply and demand - and I have no problem with that. There should be a variety of games that different people like. There should be some non-political games and some political games (in a variety of politics). Some of them will be small-press, and some of them big press - that's for the market to determine. On the other hand, I consider gamer complaints that no one makes a game just for them to be whining. If you don't like the current set of games, then make your own.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on May 07, 2018, 03:22:43 PM
Quote from: jeff37923;1037831
Do you think that this might be just a "phase" of the hobby?


As near as I can tell, it's a genuine change.  It has taken a long time, mind you.  It's not like one day there were a lot more women around at model train shows, it's more like a slowly increasing number over decades.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Gronan of Simmerya on May 07, 2018, 03:29:05 PM
Quote from: CRKrueger;1037914
Except for one small point - the whole point of the D&Dgate thing seems to not be about RPG.net as much as it is about companies both large and small having designers and publishers who seek to inject their political viewpoints into gaming through their games, as well as silence alternative viewpoints through social media attacks and boycotts.

I don't think the D&Dgate thing is a good idea (especially using that name), but sorry Mike, I think you're being disingenuous in your simplistic dismissal of the idea.

Well, I'm not talking specifically about D&Dgate, that's a different thread.

I think the whole phenomenon of social media attacks is horrific no matter who does it.  Mobs used to have to find their own torches and pitchforks and get themselves to a gathering point.  Now all they need is a keyboard.

This place reminds me of the 1988 Republican attacks on Michael Dukakis for being "a card carrying ACLU member."  My reaction was, and still is, "Oh, so you think American civil liberties are a bad thing?"

Further, to quote the Bard,

"If the enemy is an ass and a fool and a prating
coxcomb, is it meet, think you, that we should also,
look you, be an ass and a fool and a prating
coxcomb? in your own conscience, now?"
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: jeff37923 on May 07, 2018, 05:16:34 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1037952
Further, to quote the Bard,

"If the enemy is an ass and a fool and a prating
coxcomb, is it meet, think you, that we should also,
look you, be an ass and a fool and a prating
coxcomb? in your own conscience, now?"

Henry V, one of my favorites.
Title: An Open Letter To The RPG Pundit
Post by: Mordred Pendragon on May 07, 2018, 05:30:10 PM
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1037952

Further, to quote the Bard,

"If the enemy is an ass and a fool and a prating
coxcomb, is it meet, think you, that we should also,
look you, be an ass and a fool and a prating
coxcomb? in your own conscience, now?"

Based Shakespeare is at it again!

Seriously, we must prevent this place from becoming a twisted mockery of RPG.net, and I know we aren't there yet, but we could easily head down that path if we are not careful.