A Discussion of The 2nd Amendment, Weapons, and Cool Gun Stuff!

[tenbones]

So... I try to keep it basic.

I don't look for trouble. I was raised in very violent places by normal U.S. standards. I'm long disabused of the idea of having to prove my "manliness" to anyone, that ended around age 10. This doesn't mean that I'm incapable of violence, but it's like you intimate, @oggsmash - about "the standard" of what you can expect given your circumstances. If you live amongst violence, then your tolerance level for it is probably a lot higher. This brings with it a different psychology than it does for those that don't and live relatively calm and peaceful lives where violence for them comes through media programming and fiction-consumption.

I've been around the block more than a few times. I've seen people killed in front of my eyes with bad intentions. I've been in too many fights, most of which I could/should have avoided, some I caused intentionally out of youthful idiocy and egotism. But that's because I grew up a certain way, and I grew up in places where circumstances demanded a different response you won't find in "respectable communities".  I had to become self-aware of my own issues relative to others that didn't grow up as I did, later in life.

Ironically it's probably why I'm not really an SJW. Because I grew up watching the very people SJW's claim to be helping doing the *worst* shit that simply flies in the face of what white-SJW's pretend is "bad". Dead is *far* worse than harsh-words and innuendo.

This is why the current state of things brings some alarm to me. I know I'm not alone in my general experience. I probably think more about it than most, it's in my nature, but I have *zero* illusions that a lot of people in my boat: that came from humble and hard beginnings, have fought long and hard to get past obstacles in their lives, much of which was their own inadvertent creation, got lucky/became skilled enough to overcome those circumstances and excelled, and now enjoys a certain modicum of success. And you bet your ass we'll defend those things we worked for.

What I see is, generally, a bunch of spoiled over-privileged children LARPing at being revolutionaries, and being duped by Elites on the Left, and passively supported by Elites on the Right, who are themselves incapable of understanding the capacities of the this great quiet populace that is slowly becoming agitated, because they're seeing the threat to everything they worked for and believe in slowly materializing. And to those Elites... on the Left and Right... we're invisible. Hazards of egotistic privilege.

Unfortunately I fear these SJW LARP-Revolutionaries are going to find out too late what real violence is by those that do understand it. Come November, i think the LARPers will lose their shit, and may push things far enough to activate the other side. That backlash is going to get ugly. No gun-law passed by some bureaucrats in D.C. is going to change anything, other than create an outlaw-class unseen since Prohibition.

I generally agree that the 2nd Amendment is the one that allows you to have all the others... Welcome to the realities of the Human Experience.

[SHARK]

Greetings!

Yeah. Have a few more policemen killed, or charged for defending themselves from scum. Have a few militiamen killed or brutalized. Have a few more innocent, good people crushed and devoured by the mobs of Antifa animals.

*BOOM* It's coming. Just a few more, and I think the beast will be unleashed. The police won't save you. Calling on the National Guard won't be able to save you, either. Lawyers? Courts? No, they will become irrelevant. Police themselves will take sides--and they won't choose the Communists.

The beast will eat and chew, and grind. Lots and lots of blood will flow. The hurricane of rage will be unstoppable.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[Mordred Pendragon]

Depends what you're wanting it for. My safe recommendation is get yourself a 9mm (I'm a new convert to 9mm from .45). You can't go wrong with a Glock 19 - tons of aftermarket parts, and it's a damn reliable weapon. But if you want the new hotness at that pricepoint (and I'm about to buy two of them) - check out Smith&Wesson's M&P2. You can figure out if you want full-size, compact etc. based on your needs.

If you're looking for home-defense... Can never go wrong with a 12-gauge. Mossberg or Remington are both excellent (I'll err on the side of Mossberg). They're CHEAP. Reliable. And you need minimal customization (new mags). You need only decide on your cost. Mossberg 590's are *excellent* pump shotguns, I own one. But their semi-auto 930SPX tactical shotguns are... heheh... serious business for starting out.

The only reason I'd recommend an AR now over those is due to the fact that AR's will become harder to get a hold of if all the leftists have their say. So you may wanna consider getting one sooner than later. The question to build your own vs. buying one fully built should be based on how much you're willing to spend. if $500 is your range... I *highly* recommend getting a pre-built name-brand like Smith&Wesson's M&P 15. It's very high-quality, cheap. But at that price range it will be hard to get an AR with nice fancy bells and whistles to build up from cheaply. So get one that's reliable and avoid polymer receivers as much as possible. If you want something *high-quality* (and in gaming terms if you give a SM MP15 a 90% rating.. the jump to "high quality" is like 95% rating and another $400 in parts.

If you're wanting to build up from more modular system, you can go fully custom parts and build yourself. It's not as hard as it sounds. But you can also buy a pre-made like Sig M400 Tread. It's a SUPERB  AR15 platform that has a lot of excellent built-in features. But it retails about $900... but you can easily upgrade to crazy mode from there if you want.

I'll see what I can do to get an AR-15, but that might take a while to save up the funds.

I'm honestly thinking of getting a Mossberg pump-action.

My uncle swears by Mossberg when it comes to shotguns and so do most of my extended family and friends.

[Ghostmaker]

I'll see what I can do to get an AR-15, but that might take a while to save up the funds.

I'm honestly thinking of getting a Mossberg pump-action.

My uncle swears by Mossberg when it comes to shotguns and so do most of my extended family and friends.

Some gun is better than no gun at all. Although anything in .25ACP barely qualifies as gun, from what I've been told...

[crkrueger]

Some gun is better than no gun at all. Although anything in .25ACP barely qualifies as gun, from what I've been told...

Heh, this one guy I know was USMC.  He was in Iraq for Desert Storm and one of his stories is hanging out with some guys shooting the shit, British, Australian, French Foreign Legion, etc.  Anyway, they were talking about backup weapons and this Irish Royal Marine SBS brings out a Baby Browning which is .25ACP.  Everyone was giving him shit about it and he said "I've killed 5 men with this gun."...Everyone looks at him..."Well, not all in the same fight."  

[tenbones]

yeah - if .25ACP is all you got, run with it.

I don't have any particular dislike for the round. It's an old round, and frankly for its ballistics it's crappy. But you know... right tool for the right job. If you need it to protect, it'll serve. If you have other choices? There are a lot of rounds, in fact almost any other round, I'd choose over it, heh. But I'm not going to shit on anyone if that's all they got. .22's will kill you dead too.

One of the rounds I'm currently very interested in is the 6.5 Creedmoor round (not the 6.5 Grendel). The almighty and venerable 7.65NATO (or .308 caliber for you old-school folks), has been the backbone for U.S. (and other military outfits) for the last century. It's an amazing round. It's not going anywhere, but the "new" kid on the block (it's not really new - just getting more acceptance) is the 6.5 Creedmoor. The ballistics on the Creedmoor are excellent and they outperform the venerable 7.62 at long ranges.

The degree of performance will probably not matter to the vast majority of users - we're talking at 700-yards+, but for people that do care, it's fairly significant. So much so the Creedmoor is now being adopted by various special forces units in the U.S. and once a round is backed by the military, it suddenly becomes a viable option for civilian support. Right now, it's probably premature to go all-in unless you're trying to be "edgy" or you're doing a lot of long-range target shooting for fun/competition. But I'm curious to see it on a battle-rifle platform like an AR10 chassis.

I'm personally strongly considering it for my long-range option. But I may still go 7.62... we'll see.

[Ghostmaker]

Heh, this one guy I know was USMC.  He was in Iraq for Desert Storm and one of his stories is hanging out with some guys shooting the shit, British, Australian, French Foreign Legion, etc.  Anyway, they were talking about backup weapons and this Irish Royal Marine SBS brings out a Baby Browning which is .25ACP.  Everyone was giving him shit about it and he said "I've killed 5 men with this gun."...Everyone looks at him..."Well, not all in the same fight."  

When the discussion turns to small caliber pistols, I love to bring up the Kolibri.

Talk about a weapon for hunting mosquitoes and angry field mice...

[oggsmash]

Charging a guy with aggravated assault for trying to leave a confrontation (New Mexico), and charging a cop with a Capital Punishment crime for operated pretty much right down the line with Atlanta SOP......Well If the Blue Flu lasts for a week or so I guess we will see.

[crkrueger]

yeah - if .25ACP is all you got, run with it.

I don't have any particular dislike for the round. It's an old round, and frankly for its ballistics it's crappy. But you know... right tool for the right job. If you need it to protect, it'll serve. If you have other choices? There are a lot of rounds, in fact almost any other round, I'd choose over it, heh. But I'm not going to shit on anyone if that's all they got. .22's will kill you dead too.

One of the rounds I'm currently very interested in is the 6.5 Creedmoor round (not the 6.5 Grendel). The almighty and venerable 7.65NATO (or .308 caliber for you old-school folks), has been the backbone for U.S. (and other military outfits) for the last century. It's an amazing round. It's not going anywhere, but the "new" kid on the block (it's not really new - just getting more acceptance) is the 6.5 Creedmoor. The ballistics on the Creedmoor are excellent and they outperform the venerable 7.62 at long ranges.

The degree of performance will probably not matter to the vast majority of users - we're talking at 700-yards+, but for people that do care, it's fairly significant. So much so the Creedmoor is now being adopted by various special forces units in the U.S. and once a round is backed by the military, it suddenly becomes a viable option for civilian support. Right now, it's probably premature to go all-in unless you're trying to be "edgy" or you're doing a lot of long-range target shooting for fun/competition. But I'm curious to see it on a battle-rifle platform like an AR10 chassis.

I'm personally strongly considering it for my long-range option. But I may still go 7.62... we'll see.

7.62x51 would be a much better SHTF/WROL option, but if you get a fuckton of reloading supplies that might be ok, but you won't be scavenging much Creedmoor.

[Spinachcat]

I also have a "history of violence", not as significant as what tenbones has experienced. I, most unfortunately, fully agree with what he has posted. I am trying to not be alarmed, just observant. I am considering swift evac out of LA.

As much as I love ironmongery, I am concerned lawful self-defense might soon become illegal.

The beast will eat and chew, and grind. Lots and lots of blood will flow. The hurricane of rage will be unstoppable.

We need to avoid that...and avoid the Leftist psycho-nonsense. Thus my thread on how we might balkanize peacefully...or at least with the bare minimum loss of life.

My father was Croatian, aka former Yugoslavia. I've seen what happens with a modern civil war and its aftermath, but I also saw Croatia under communism too. It's all shit that nobody wants.

[Spinachcat]

Firearms for home defense is one topic, but we also need to discuss Concealed Carry and Open Carry. I believe these issues are going to be forefront if the insanity continues to escalate. Of course, you may be saving your life only to face murder charges, but there is the concept of firearm as deterrent.

Another point of our discussion should be legal and concealable melee weapons. I've had a variety of knives over the decades, but changes in California law have made carry of them illegal. I need to research what current punch knives have been designed to wiggle around state laws regarding blade length.

[oggsmash]

I would say stay in good shape and be able to fight.  The gun should be a total last resort.   But worrying about concealed carry and open carry....they are charging a cop with doing his duty down the line a capital murder charge.   Concern with those things is the old rearranging deck furniture on the titanic post iceberg.   I think it is more important to make sure you own the gun.  I think every man should always carry a knife, and so long as you are not going into a courthouse or airplane....well legal is a word that swings sharply according to geography or time.  

    I would possibly consider not living in a state where a basic staple of being a man (carrying a knife) is not illegal.

[oggsmash]

Seems the Charges have been dropped by the DA in New Mexico, so maybe there is hope out there.

[Ghostmaker]

Seems the Charges have been dropped by the DA in New Mexico, so maybe there is hope out there.

Not quite. They dropped the shooting charge (and have left the door open to reinstate it), but he's still charged with aggravated battery and misdemeanor battery, as well as carrying concealed without a permit (also a misdemeanor).

They MIGHT be able to get the battery charges to stick, maybe. As I understand it, it was 'mutual combat' and nobody had clean hands in those altercations.

If I was his lawyer, though, I'd tell the DA, 'We'll plead guilty to carrying without a permit, and we won't make you look like the Antifa-dicksucker you are in court for charging a guy who was defending himself from having his head caved in with a skateboard.'

[oggsmash]

Not quite. They dropped the shooting charge (and have left the door open to reinstate it), but he's still charged with aggravated battery and misdemeanor battery, as well as carrying concealed without a permit (also a misdemeanor).

They MIGHT be able to get the battery charges to stick, maybe. As I understand it, it was 'mutual combat' and nobody had clean hands in those altercations.

If I was his lawyer, though, I'd tell the DA, 'We'll plead guilty to carrying without a permit, and we won't make you look like the Antifa-dicksucker you are in court for charging a guy who was defending himself from having his head caved in with a skateboard.'

   When I posted this there was no aggravated battery....just a carrying a weapon improperly and simple battery.
  Well, the skateboard they didnt care about.  The knife found at the scene, and the video of the guy he shot holding it in his left hand coming at him......well...that was about to look bad.