2020 Election Commentary

[jhkim]

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

This is getting hugely off-topic, but I will do my damndest to beat the shit out of you if you lay a finger on a kid in my house - or any other kid - just for going to the goddamn bathroom. Living in the Bay Area, I know a bunch of kids who identify as non-binary or gender fluid. This includes the family who live in the other half of my duplex, whose kid I watched grow from a baby to an awesome high school senior now. I chatted with them recently about their going to Korea next semester for study abroad, which they're excited about. It baffles and enrages me that someone would come and beat them up just for going to the bathroom. The same goes for the children of all my other family, friends, and community members.

Perfect example of disingenuous bullshit or pathological aversion to context.

Shark isn't talking about pre-pubescents, he's talking about potential sexual predators in a dress.  The context is clear and taking it otherwise is not signaling high INT

EOTB, your post is disingenuous bullshit. What SHARK said was "gender fluid trans freak". Your claim is "Of course by 'gender fluid trans freak' what he means is 'rapist'". That's not a fucking equivalence. I don't accept that it's acceptable to equate "trans person" to "sexual predator" as if they're somehow the same thing, because they're not.

Every week I read about trans people being beaten, raped, and killed.

https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/marking-the-deadliest-year-on-record-hrc-releases-report-on-violence-against-transgender-and-gender-non-conforming-people

I have yet to read about *any* case of someone posing as trans to assult a cis girl or woman in a bathroom. SHARK - if you want to clarify who you would beat up for going to the bathroom, you can go ahead and clarify.

I get the concern that male predators can don a dress and slip into the bathroom, but what stopped them from doing that three decades ago?

Wasn't the entire point of publicly changing the law to shame people to stop them from making a scene if noticing males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom?  I would think that historically had a chilling effect on males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom.

There's no such law, though. For the most part, there have not been laws for who uses what restroom - it's just culture. Conservative advocates in several states have now pushed to add new "bathroom laws" to enforce bathroom use. Despite lack of such laws, there has never been any pattern of a man putting on a dress in order to get into a women's bathroom and rape someone there. I've never read of a single documented case.

I have read about dozens of assaults of men going out to beat up - and possibly rape and kill - trans people.

Every trans person I know worries that someone will come and beat them up just for what they wear, or for what bathroom they use. And this is in California!

[EOTB]

Apparently around here it doesn't extend to the majority that voted for Joe Biden.

Well, most of them died during the Bush and Clinton administrations

[Mistwell]

Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have two close friends who are trans, and one close friend whose child (near adult) is trans or at least trying to figure that question out.

None of them, and I mean none of them in any even vague possible way, would want to use a bathroom with someone else because they want to be near those other people, or leer at those other people, or even look at those other people. The issue has nothing to do with those kinds of things, for them.

All three of these people are nerdy. All three are awkward, even as adults. It's really not about sexuality for any of them. They wouldn't be in a bathroom to make anyone feel uncomfortable, or to feel anything about them. In fact, they'd all prefer to be as invisible as possible. They would just...want to go to the bathroom in peace, without anyone giving them a hassle. Without looking out of place.

I think this is one of those topics which seems one way on a theoretical basis, and seems entirely much more innocent when encountered in real life. This isn't about dirty old men trying to pose as a woman to leer at naked women in bathrooms. This is about people who, at least in my limited experience, are just awkward people who feel out of place and they want to just quietly go to the bathroom like everyone else in the place they feel they're "supposed" to be. Without making eye contact, or conversation, or being noticed really at all.

Greetings!

Ok, Mistwell. Such examples as you cite seem innocent enough, but I am reminded of how I have heard about trans freaks going into women's bathrooms and fucking little girls.

Are you surprised that such examples make me think of being entirely harsh and ruthless?

Why do you think so many people get crazy about trans men wearing dresses going into women's bathrooms?

Seems like quite a normal reaction to me. Matter of fact, I know many people that are dead set against letting trans men into women's bathrooms. It's not even a subject open for discussion with them.

I think this is just yet another example of the larger cultural divide between Conservatives and Liberals. The enormous divide in how people view reality, the gender norms they embrace, and the social rules they are comfortable with and expect to be maintained. You, and Jhkim are just fine with trans men going into women's bathrooms. Well, there are lots of normal men and normal women that are not just fine with that.

Just one more difference between Liberal progressive states and Conservative states!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I felt uncomfortable with the idea until I met trans people and found them to be nothing like the sterotype in my head. That's what changed my mind. Not politics. Not a state. Not a culture. Just meeting people and seeing for myself nothing was scary there.

I am not a progressive. In no way shape or form am I am progressive. Most people who know me consider me a Republican. Most of my votes over the course of my life have gone to Republicans, though there are a meaningful number of Democrats in there as well (an a few third parties).

This isn't a matter of ideology for me. It's just me knowing people and finding them to be nothing like I imagined.

Which, let's face it, used to be how many people thought of RPG players. During the Satanic Panic, people would have looked you straight in the eye and told you they had read legit news reports about how D&D players were satanists who murdered people and engaged in vile rituals. They genuinely believed this, and felt they had read actual news accounts of it happening, and lost their shit if they heard a kid was playing it.

And then when you meet an actual gamer you find the gamer is nothing like that mythology that was built up.

I find this to be a very similar topic.

[EOTB]

This is getting hugely off-topic, but I will do my damndest to beat the shit out of you if you lay a finger on a kid in my house - or any other kid - just for going to the goddamn bathroom. Living in the Bay Area, I know a bunch of kids who identify as non-binary or gender fluid. This includes the family who live in the other half of my duplex, whose kid I watched grow from a baby to an awesome high school senior now. I chatted with them recently about their going to Korea next semester for study abroad, which they're excited about. It baffles and enrages me that someone would come and beat them up just for going to the bathroom. The same goes for the children of all my other family, friends, and community members.

Perfect example of disingenuous bullshit or pathological aversion to context.

Shark isn't talking about pre-pubescents, he's talking about potential sexual predators in a dress.  The context is clear and taking it otherwise is not signaling high INT

EOTB, your post is disingenuous bullshit. What SHARK said was "gender fluid trans freak". Your claim is "Of course by 'gender fluid trans freak' what he means is 'rapist'". That's not a fucking equivalence. I don't accept that it's acceptable to equate "trans person" to "sexual predator" as if they're somehow the same thing, because they're not.

Every week I read about trans people being beaten, raped, and killed.

https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/marking-the-deadliest-year-on-record-hrc-releases-report-on-violence-against-transgender-and-gender-non-conforming-people

I have yet to read about *any* case of someone posing as trans to assult a cis girl or woman in a bathroom. SHARK - if you want to clarify who you would beat up for going to the bathroom, you can go ahead and clarify.

I get the concern that male predators can don a dress and slip into the bathroom, but what stopped them from doing that three decades ago?

Wasn't the entire point of publicly changing the law to shame people to stop them from making a scene if noticing males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom?  I would think that historically had a chilling effect on males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom.

There's no such law, though. For the most part, there have not been laws for who uses what restroom - it's just culture. Conservative advocates in several states have now pushed to add new "bathroom laws" to enforce bathroom use. Despite lack of such laws, there has never been any pattern of a man putting on a dress in order to get into a women's bathroom and rape someone there. I've never read of a single documented case.

I have read about dozens of assaults of men going out to beat up - and possibly rape and kill - trans people.

Every trans person I know worries that someone will come and beat them up just for what they wear, or for what bathroom they use. And this is in California!

You're the one jumping to rape.  https://www.spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2016/jul/13/transgender-woman-arrested/ 

You used shark's post to launch into a diatribe about shark beating up kids and how you would step up to prevent this horrible thing no one remotely said.  Yes, that was so clearly and obviously a disingenuous reading of shark's post the jury is not confused.  The effect of your passionate defense of children not mentioned in shark's post is to muddy perception that shark's post was about beating up children.  Go fuck yourself.

Yes, they did change the law.  The white house issued a directive with the administrative effect of law stating that this was a title IX issue - one not previously considered to exist.  That is changing the law, because suddenly schools could lose title IX-dependent funding if they maintained the traditional bathroom rules, which wasn't true the day before that directive was issued.  Your reading apparently doesn't extend to the finer points of the controversy.

Maybe someday they will do a study on your inability to read context causing your inaccurate conclusions, and the information will be packaged in a form you're disposed to accept.

BTW - if you want to use my pointing out your posting style to launch into trans, society at large, and the law - go ahead.  But I won't be responding to this any further. 

[rawma]

The most important thing to realize is they've created an office of the presidency that can do anything they want him to do, completely outside of the checks and balances we think are there (but aren't); but simultaneously one that can do nearly nothing that you elect him to do. 

Heads I win, tails you lose.

Outside of the 2017 tax reform, everything Trump did can be undone in weeks after he leaves. 

Isn't that the fault of Congress, and most specifically the Senate? The master of deals never made any; the Senate and in particular McConnell used Trump for what they wanted (tax cuts and judicial appointments - another thing that can't be undone in weeks) but little else if they could avoid it.

Trump never really demonstrated any steady vision of what he wanted to do, other than playing golf and seeking uncritical adulation.

Apparently around here it doesn't extend to the majority that voted for Joe Biden.

Well, most of them died during the Bush and Clinton administrations

If that were true, you'd think Rudy's elite strike force could easily find many such voters.

(Pennsylvania did find an attempted dead voter - a Republican in Forty Fort tried to get an absentee ballot for his dead mother.)

[EOTB]

And then when you meet an actual gamer you find the gamer is nothing like that mythology that was built up.

I find this to be a very similar topic.

"I'm here pacing...I'm here leading...we're the same...we face the same basic struggle...and if I can change...and if you can change...we all can change!"

[EOTB]

judicial appointments - another thing that can't be undone in weeks

Republican judges primarily keep *you* from ever having a president that will do anything other than what the globalists want. 

[DocJones]

I have yet to read about *any* case of someone posing as trans to assult a cis girl or woman in a bathroom. SHARK - if you want to clarify who you would beat up for going to the bathroom, you can go ahead and clarify.

I suspect these fine citizens might be deserving of an ass-kicking:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/transgender-wyoming-woman-convicted-of-sexually-assaulting-10-year-old-girl-in-bathroom
https://www.kxii.com/content/news/Transgender-woman-allegedly-sexually-assaults-teen-in-walmart-505820451.html
https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-transgender-youth-arrested-for-raping-4-year-old-girl-distributing-videos-photos-of-the-act-jakob-dakota-nieves/
https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/16/transgender-woman-18-sexually-assaulted-girl-10-morrisons-toilet-8914577/

[EOTB]

Dan fucking Crenshaw

[Elfdart]

In any event, it's hard to take seriously an article that refers to the late Hugo Chavez as a "dictator" when he was legitimately elected and made it a point not to crush his enemies -even after they tried at least one putsch against him.

That's not a very good argument. Hitler, of all people, rose to power in a legitimate election. Plenty of dictators use democratic means to acquire power; the defining characteristic is how they change rules or use extralegal means to ensure they stay in power. And Chavez not only changed the Constitution and packed the courts to maintain his hold, he even started his career as part of a failed military coup. Venezuela never became fully authoritarian under his rule, but it was on the border.

That's a slippery way of wording it. Hitler was trounced in the 1932 presidential election by Hindenburg, but got the chancellorship in a corrupt bargain when the German establishment (landowners, bankers, industrialists, etc) decided to back him and put him over. So no, Hitler was never elected. He got the job in a backroom deal.

Hmm... You sure know alot about NAZIS. Are they part of your interests? Conflict Simulations? Just wondering...

Read a few books.

[SHARK]

This is getting hugely off-topic, but I will do my damndest to beat the shit out of you if you lay a finger on a kid in my house - or any other kid - just for going to the goddamn bathroom. Living in the Bay Area, I know a bunch of kids who identify as non-binary or gender fluid. This includes the family who live in the other half of my duplex, whose kid I watched grow from a baby to an awesome high school senior now. I chatted with them recently about their going to Korea next semester for study abroad, which they're excited about. It baffles and enrages me that someone would come and beat them up just for going to the bathroom. The same goes for the children of all my other family, friends, and community members.

Perfect example of disingenuous bullshit or pathological aversion to context.

Shark isn't talking about pre-pubescents, he's talking about potential sexual predators in a dress.  The context is clear and taking it otherwise is not signaling high INT

EOTB, your post is disingenuous bullshit. What SHARK said was "gender fluid trans freak". Your claim is "Of course by 'gender fluid trans freak' what he means is 'rapist'". That's not a fucking equivalence. I don't accept that it's acceptable to equate "trans person" to "sexual predator" as if they're somehow the same thing, because they're not.

Every week I read about trans people being beaten, raped, and killed.

https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/marking-the-deadliest-year-on-record-hrc-releases-report-on-violence-against-transgender-and-gender-non-conforming-people

I have yet to read about *any* case of someone posing as trans to assult a cis girl or woman in a bathroom. SHARK - if you want to clarify who you would beat up for going to the bathroom, you can go ahead and clarify.

I get the concern that male predators can don a dress and slip into the bathroom, but what stopped them from doing that three decades ago?

Wasn't the entire point of publicly changing the law to shame people to stop them from making a scene if noticing males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom?  I would think that historically had a chilling effect on males dressed like women entering the women's bathroom.

There's no such law, though. For the most part, there have not been laws for who uses what restroom - it's just culture. Conservative advocates in several states have now pushed to add new "bathroom laws" to enforce bathroom use. Despite lack of such laws, there has never been any pattern of a man putting on a dress in order to get into a women's bathroom and rape someone there. I've never read of a single documented case.

I have read about dozens of assaults of men going out to beat up - and possibly rape and kill - trans people.

Every trans person I know worries that someone will come and beat them up just for what they wear, or for what bathroom they use. And this is in California!

You're the one jumping to rape.  https://www.spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2016/jul/13/transgender-woman-arrested/ 

You used shark's post to launch into a diatribe about shark beating up kids and how you would step up to prevent this horrible thing no one remotely said.  Yes, that was so clearly and obviously a disingenuous reading of shark's post the jury is not confused.  The effect of your passionate defense of children not mentioned in shark's post is to muddy perception that shark's post was about beating up children.  Go fuck yourself.

Yes, they did change the law.  The white house issued a directive with the administrative effect of law stating that this was a title IX issue - one not previously considered to exist.  That is changing the law, because suddenly schools could lose title IX-dependent funding if they maintained the traditional bathroom rules, which wasn't true the day before that directive was issued.  Your reading apparently doesn't extend to the finer points of the controversy.

Maybe someday they will do a study on your inability to read context causing your inaccurate conclusions, and the information will be packaged in a form you're disposed to accept.

BTW - if you want to use my pointing out your posting style to launch into trans, society at large, and the law - go ahead.  But I won't be responding to this any further.

Greetings!

Right on point, my friend! Talk about Jhkim intentionally "muddying the waters"! *laughing* Geesus, so true, heh?

Of course, SHARK isn't talking about beating fucking kids.

Adult men that like to wear dresses and fucking pretend they are women, going into women's bathrooms. I've heard of these kinds of freaks harassing women, molesting and raping young girls.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[SHARK]

And then when you meet an actual gamer you find the gamer is nothing like that mythology that was built up.

I find this to be a very similar topic.

"I'm here pacing...I'm here leading...we're the same...we face the same basic struggle...and if I can change...and if you can change...we all can change!"

Greetings!

*LAUGHING* Just what you were talking about earlier in the thread, EOTB! PACING AND LEADING!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[SHARK]

Greetings!

You know what? Put some "gender fluid" Trans freak in the bathroom with *my daughter*--and I guarantee you that my response to the Trans freak wouldn't be pretty, nice, or sweet.

I don't care how many of its "rights" I violate, either. The Trans freak is going to have a lot more to worry about than his "rights" being violated.

Oh, is that "escalating violence"? Reee all you want. I make no apologies. These goddamned freaks do not belong anywhere near our women, our daughters, or family!

I would stand rock solid behind any man that felt the same--in or out of a courtroom. I don't give a fuck. There are some things that you know what? Fuck what the cock-sucking society thinks, and fuck what some cucks in government believe. You have to make a stand for what is right, no matter what the cost. Just tell the cuck judge to bring a rope, because you are not backing down, not now, not ever. Let these cuck judges try and judge against people protecting their families. See how fast they see the fucking light when shit gets burned and blood starts flowing in the streets like crazy.

That's right. We know they would shit their fucking pants and change their viewpoints very fast. A rope would be waiting for them right outside their fucking house.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have two close friends who are trans, and one close friend whose child (near adult) is trans or at least trying to figure that question out.

None of them, and I mean none of them in any even vague possible way, would want to use a bathroom with someone else because they want to be near those other people, or leer at those other people, or even look at those other people. The issue has nothing to do with those kinds of things, for them.

All three of these people are nerdy. All three are awkward, even as adults. It's really not about sexuality for any of them. They wouldn't be in a bathroom to make anyone feel uncomfortable, or to feel anything about them. In fact, they'd all prefer to be as invisible as possible. They would just...want to go to the bathroom in peace, without anyone giving them a hassle. Without looking out of place.

I think this is one of those topics which seems one way on a theoretical basis, and seems entirely much more innocent when encountered in real life. This isn't about dirty old men trying to pose as a woman to leer at naked women in bathrooms. This is about people who, at least in my limited experience, are just awkward people who feel out of place and they want to just quietly go to the bathroom like everyone else in the place they feel they're "supposed" to be. Without making eye contact, or conversation, or being noticed really at all.

Greetings!

Ok, Mistwell. Such examples as you cite seem innocent enough, but I am reminded of how I have heard about trans freaks going into women's bathrooms and fucking little girls.

Are you surprised that such examples make me think of being entirely harsh and ruthless?

Why do you think so many people get crazy about trans men wearing dresses going into women's bathrooms?

Seems like quite a normal reaction to me. Matter of fact, I know many people that are dead set against letting trans men into women's bathrooms. It's not even a subject open for discussion with them.

I think this is just yet another example of the larger cultural divide between Conservatives and Liberals. The enormous divide in how people view reality, the gender norms they embrace, and the social rules they are comfortable with and expect to be maintained. You, and Jhkim are just fine with trans men going into women's bathrooms. Well, there are lots of normal men and normal women that are not just fine with that.

Just one more difference between Liberal progressive states and Conservative states!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I felt uncomfortable with the idea until I met trans people and found them to be nothing like the sterotype in my head. That's what changed my mind. Not politics. Not a state. Not a culture. Just meeting people and seeing for myself nothing was scary there.

I am not a progressive. In no way shape or form am I am progressive. Most people who know me consider me a Republican. Most of my votes over the course of my life have gone to Republicans, though there are a meaningful number of Democrats in there as well (an a few third parties).

This isn't a matter of ideology for me. It's just me knowing people and finding them to be nothing like I imagined.

Which, let's face it, used to be how many people thought of RPG players. During the Satanic Panic, people would have looked you straight in the eye and told you they had read legit news reports about how D&D players were satanists who murdered people and engaged in vile rituals. They genuinely believed this, and felt they had read actual news accounts of it happening, and lost their shit if they heard a kid was playing it.

And then when you meet an actual gamer you find the gamer is nothing like that mythology that was built up.

I find this to be a very similar topic.

Greetings!

Mistwell, I have to confess to you. I have met and had conversations with Transvestite men. Yes, they were polite and friendly.

I also still believe that they were definitely on the nutty side. I wouldn't say that they are rational, clear thinking people, nor are they emotionally stable. From what I saw--over a time of socializing with them to some extent--their lives are a fucking mess and a train-wreck. Their family-life, their jobs, the multiple lovers, the drugs, on and fucking on. I think these "gender fluid" trans freaks are delusional.

I still do not believe that Trans men should be allowed to go into women's bathrooms. I don't think it is a good idea at all.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[SHARK]

Greetings!

The Banana Republic of the United States.

Paint The Trump program discusses the current politics, the Chinese virus, Masks, and the elections.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[jhkim]

You used shark's post to launch into a diatribe about shark beating up kids and how you would step up to prevent this horrible thing no one remotely said.  Yes, that was so clearly and obviously a disingenuous reading of shark's post the jury is not confused.  The effect of your passionate defense of children not mentioned in shark's post is to muddy perception that shark's post was about beating up children.  Go fuck yourself.

The muddied perception here isn't from me. SHARK named "gender fluid trans" people as if they're all adult sexual predators, and that they shouldn't be near any girls or families.

That's wrong, and I called him on it.

I gave examples from my own life of what trans people I know. There's my late friend H, who played in our games for years but was terribly shy and I regret missing news of her death. There's my ex-wife's friend C, who is a budding author. There's my friend E, whom I co-GMed a campaign with for three years before she moved and transitioned. There's my house-mate's kid J, and there's my old neighborhood friend's kid other J. And there's my friend M who came out just earlier this year.

I never knew any trans people growing up. The only people I knew were gay were a couple who went to my church, but later in life I learned that a number of people I knew were gay - like my favorite high school English teacher, and one of my first co-workers. I only met trans people after moving to the Bay Area twenty years ago. It was definitely surprising to me that I would know so many people who came out as trans.

I have met some trans people who seemed sketchy - but then, I've met a bunch of non-trans people who seemed sketchy. I have seen nothing to suggest that there is any correlation between people being trans and being any sort of danger to others. (Trans people do have a higher suicide rate than average, but that's a danger to themselves.) To that end, you claimed:

You're the one jumping to rape.  https://www.spokesman.com/blogs/hbo/2016/jul/13/transgender-woman-arrested/ 

So... One trans person four years ago took an inappropriate picture in a fitting room. If that's the most you came up with, that implies to me that trans people are quite safe compared to the rest of the population. Given tens of thousands of rapes and murders every year among the non-trans population.