2020 Election Commentary

[Spinachcat]

The USA doesn't need to play world police to remain an economic superpower.

The less blood and treasure we spend on foreign misadventures, the more we can enhance quality of life at home and invest in new technologies. 9/11 did not do an ounce of damage compared to the two decades of useless wars ever since 2001.

[Spinachcat]

First false or stolen election in my lifetime.

If Sidney Powell has the evidence she claims she has, and if she can prove the crimes and fraud she claims she can, then we're going to learn that more than one election has been stolen.

I am dreading January because I really think intense rioting or a "Lite"Civil War will happen.

I wonder about Trump's response to riots during his 2nd term (assuming Sidney Powell can save America). Trump is pro-states rights but often because he wants businesses and non-leftists to leave blue states and blue cities as the juxtaposition between how red and blue areas handle rioting is quite stark.

It's also a question if whether the Democrats will find riots useful or not. This summer, they refused the National Guard, but if the rioters aren't valuable anymore, I suspect the Democrats will have the riots crushed. 

[Ghostmaker]

I think that's out of date. The canvassing board for Wayne County was deadlocked 2-2 in a party line vote around 6 pm, but they got swamped by denouncers in Zoom, and voted again at 9 pm. The second vote was unanimous in favor of approving the results, on the condition that the Michigan Secretary of State's office conduct an audit of the precincts where the number of ballots cast doesn't match the number of people who signed into the polling locations to vote.

Sounce: WSJ article, updated 11/17, 11:28 pm.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/michigan-ballot-count-uncertain-after-board-action-11605660687

Greetings!

Really, Pat? Holy Fuck! My YouTube Newsfeed thingy said the Hodgetwins video was *just two hours ago*. Geesus. Changes by the hour! Well, fuck. It was recent as far as I knew. Damn!

Who knows what will happen.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Don't feel too bad about that one, Shark. That one practically changed at the last minute, and they had to agree to a comprehensive audit just to certify (honestly, I'd have held out for the audit FIRST, before certifying, but eh, such is life).

[oggsmash]

I must reluctantly conceed that America is an Empire, but as a citizen of the Country of America, I have to agree that, as much as I like Korma, if I wanted to live in India, I'd move to Mumbai, just to pick one of the many possible provinces of Empire currently influencing our local politics.  The solution seems quite obvious to me: End the Empire.  Pull the warships back, close the foreign bases, and stop tossing MOABs around like they were fourth of july fireworks.  I do not care of the Hutus and Tutsis are slaughtering each other with machetes. I don't care which tribe rules Yemen, or if Iran or Turkey gets to play kingmaker in the Middle East. I don't care if China plants a flag on a god damn glorified sand bar in the South China Sea, or if Japan bombs Beijing because they are pissed that their flag isn't flying over said glorified Sandbar. Let them murder each other, or not.

The moment you stop being an empire, the dollar stops being the world's currency.
The moment the dollar stops being the world's currency, the USA default on their national debt.
The moment the USA default, your quality of life goes down the drain.

A significant portion of your standard of living is linked to the massive economic advantage of being the world's first superpower. Once that goes, so your standard of living is going to drop.

Also, isolationism works only until the world comes knocking to your door. Ask Bush.

   The USA is not the world's first superpower, it just happens to be the only one right now.  But China is pushing on that. As for the empire parts, correct and If the default comes towards reality, expect a large scale war to pop off.  It is the 1 product the USA does love to export all the time.  I would prefer the standard crash, the USA be forced to look to matters in its own borders and end all foreign adventures.   I think I want a great reset too, just not the one Klaus-bond-villain is looking for.  Let states separate out and govern themselves and we move forward without me having to guess how many of the dollars I pay to the Feds fed some idiot too useless to work, or bought a bomb that killed some random kid standing too close to the wrong building.

[sureshot]

When people on this forum dare say they didn't vote for Trump, knowing they are outnumbered 10 to 1, calling them trolls makes it even harder. I've never trolled here once, but people here have accused me of it purely based on my disagreeing. And damn dude, you know how hard it is to "address criticism" when every post of yours gets a massive number of long detailed responses? No, you don't, at least not here. Because you outnumber the "opposition" ten to one. Cut people some fucking slack when you know you have them so outnumbered.

Oh please unlike other posters here your called a troll and disingenuous because you go out of your way to do both. Not because your disagree with others. In the gaming forum in the Thirty Sword Lesbian thread you knew full well how some posters felt about the rpg. Then came into the thread pretending to be both naive and clueless about it. Even when you knew full well how some of use felt about the rpg. So if your going to pretend to be naive and stupid on purpose then expect to be called both a troll and disingenuous on this board and others. Espcially if you can't be bothered to actual read the thread in question.

So stop with the martyr and victim complex because your not fooling anyone here.

[Snowman0147]

Oh please unlike other posters here your called a troll and disingenuous because you go out of your way to do both. Not because your disagree with others. In the gaming forum in the Thirty Sword Lesbian thread you knew full well how some posters felt about the rpg. Then came into the thread pretending to be both naive and clueless about it. Even when you knew full well how some of use felt about the rpg. So if your going to pretend to be naive and stupid on purpose then expect to be called both a troll and disingenuous on this board and others. Espcially if you can't be bothered to actual read the thread in question.

So stop with the martyr and victim complex because your not fooling anyone here.

I honestly think you need to follow your own advice and put Mistwell into the ignore list.  Your feeding the trolls at this point and Mistwell isn't a honest person.

[Spike]

The moment you stop being an empire, the dollar stops being the world's currency.
The moment the dollar stops being the world's currency, the USA default on their national debt.
The moment the USA default, your quality of life goes down the drain.

A significant portion of your standard of living is linked to the massive economic advantage of being the world's first superpower. Once that goes, so your standard of living is going to drop.

The standard of living for the average American has been dropping steadily since 1976, at least as measured in real income.  We've been outrunning a massive correction on debt for even longer.  If there must be a collapse (and really, there must. That which cannot stand will not stand and all that), why not combine that with the added benefit of ending our Imperial ambitions?

Also, isolationism works only until the world comes knocking to your door. Ask Bush.

Actually, a very solid argument could be made that 9/11, which i must assume you are alluding to, was the result of Imperial Policies. The Mujahadeen that trained Bin Laden were funded by American Imperialists, the inspirational moment that triggered his desire to destroy skyscrapers was seeing Americans bomb towers in the Middle East, and the hijackers trained in American piloting schools and hijacked plains from American airports... both of which were made possible by an Imperial border policy that views all members of the Imperial Provinces (in this case, Saudi Arabia) as having full rights in Rome, so to speak.

Tell me exactly how Bush, either Bush, was following Isolationist policies? 


I'll mention one other benefit, a purely personal one I suppose, to getting out of the Empire business.  I hate hearing people... foreigners under the Country model or Provincials under the Empire model... bitch about the American Empire, and how much they want us to just Go Away and Leave them Alone.  I LOVE giving people what they ask for, especially if I know they'll bitch about getting exactly what they asked for.    It isn't quite Schadenfreude, but some species of close relative. I'm SURE the Germans have a word for it. I mean, fuck: They've got a measurement based on mosquito dicks.  Their dedication to producing awesome words is inspiring. 

[Pat]

The standard of living for the average American has been dropping steadily since 1976, at least as measured in real income.  We've been outrunning a massive correction on debt for even longer.  If there must be a collapse (and really, there must. That which cannot stand will not stand and all that), why not combine that with the added benefit of ending our Imperial ambitions?

That's not quite true. The standard of living, as defined by inflation-adjusted compensation, has improved since the 1970s. And that underestimates the real improvement in the standard of living, because metrics like the consumer price index only track changes in price, and don't account for all the improvements in quality or value. For instance, even if a car in 2020 costs the same in inflation-adjusted dollars as a car from 1980, the newer car is more efficient, safer, and has many new features. This is especially true when it comes to technology, but applies to nearly all consumer products. The average person in 2020 has more and better stuff than their equivalent in 1980.

The qualification is that inflation-adjusted wages haven't improved that much. As curves go, it's pretty flat. And that's over the same period where measures of the overall economy, like the gross domestic product, have been growing at a pretty solid rate. That's because the growth has been going into other sectors, like the capital industries. The stock market, for instance, has grown at a rate that drastically outstrips the growth in wages. Which is a big part of the reason why the rich have been getting richer.

So while we're better off than we were in the 1970s, it can feel like the average worker is falling behind. That's because they are. The workers haven't shared fully in the economy growth. Their slice is bigger in overall terms, but it's a smaller part of the overall pie.

[Mistwell]

Greetings!

Get ready for endless fucking Liberal tears.

No evidence of fraud, my ass.

Choke on it, bitches.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I am not trying to be insulting when I say this but I suspect it will come across that way.

SHARK my friend, you don't see what you look like to others anymore.

How did you not see this wasn't the "Holy shit I was right and you were wrong Trump won!" in the moment? My man, why are you not holding yourself at least as accountable for falling for click bait on YouTube as you'd hold others?

[Mistwell]

If Sidney Powell has the evidence she claims she has, and if she can prove the crimes and fraud she claims she can, then we're going to learn that more than one election has been stolen.

She doesn't have any evidence. Powell is trying to get her own TV show, on NewsMax or whatever network Trump decides to run after he leaves office. She's also trying to sell you her books.

[Mistwell]

When people on this forum dare say they didn't vote for Trump, knowing they are outnumbered 10 to 1, calling them trolls makes it even harder. I've never trolled here once, but people here have accused me of it purely based on my disagreeing. And damn dude, you know how hard it is to "address criticism" when every post of yours gets a massive number of long detailed responses? No, you don't, at least not here. Because you outnumber the "opposition" ten to one. Cut people some fucking slack when you know you have them so outnumbered.

Oh please unlike other posters here your called a troll and disingenuous because you go out of your way to do both. Not because your disagree with others. In the gaming forum in the Thirty Sword Lesbian thread you knew full well how some posters felt about the rpg. Then came into the thread pretending to be both naive and clueless about it. Even when you knew full well how some of use felt about the rpg. So if your going to pretend to be naive and stupid on purpose then expect to be called both a troll and disingenuous on this board and others. Espcially if you can't be bothered to actual read the thread in question.

So stop with the martyr and victim complex because your not fooling anyone here.

No man, you're so surrounded by people who think exactly like you do on those kinds of topics you cannot even imagine that I don't assume people think like that. I was not trolling. I was giving you my honest opinion, but my opinion was so far from your bubble you cannot imagine it was honest because you don't see opinions like those in your life these days.

I am no victim or martyr. My comment about being a radical moderate was a joke. Which you would have gotten if, again, you had more experience outside your bubble. It is true however that you should be cutting people slack when you outnumber them 10 to 1 in the "responding" to everything in a comprehensive way. Not because when you are similarly situated it's what you would reasonably ask of others.

[Mistwell]

Oh please unlike other posters here your called a troll and disingenuous because you go out of your way to do both. Not because your disagree with others. In the gaming forum in the Thirty Sword Lesbian thread you knew full well how some posters felt about the rpg. Then came into the thread pretending to be both naive and clueless about it. Even when you knew full well how some of use felt about the rpg. So if your going to pretend to be naive and stupid on purpose then expect to be called both a troll and disingenuous on this board and others. Espcially if you can't be bothered to actual read the thread in question.

So stop with the martyr and victim complex because your not fooling anyone here.

I honestly think you need to follow your own advice and put Mistwell into the ignore list.  Your feeding the trolls at this point and Mistwell isn't a honest person.

It's OK that you cannot handle dissent. Not everyone is built for it. But, I am honest and not trolling. You call people trolls who dissent from your view. Because you want this place to be just one groupthink. It's your comfort zone. You don't deal well with the concept that your worldview isn't universal. Others do though.

[HappyDaze]

I really think intense rioting or a "Lite"Civil War will happen.

-Ed C

The real question is, will you be shouting "Tastes Great" or "Less Filling" when that time comes?

[GameDaddy]

The moment you stop being an empire, the dollar stops being the world's currency.
The moment the dollar stops being the world's currency, the USA default on their national debt.
The moment the USA default, your quality of life goes down the drain.

A significant portion of your standard of living is linked to the massive economic advantage of being the world's first superpower. Once that goes, so your standard of living is going to drop.

Also, isolationism works only until the world comes knocking to your door. Ask Bush.

This is old news. This has already happened.
https://www.gradingstates.org/the-real-path-to-state-prosperity/sharing-the-gains/

https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/121e5a80-61e2-4c65-aa25-a06a1c0887d5/reich-testimony.pdf

[GameDaddy]

That's not quite true. The standard of living, as defined by inflation-adjusted compensation, has improved since the 1970s. And that underestimates the real improvement in the standard of living, because metrics like the consumer price index only track changes in price, and don't account for all the improvements in quality or value. For instance, even if a car in 2020 costs the same in inflation-adjusted dollars as a car from 1980, the newer car is more efficient, safer, and has many new features. This is especially true when it comes to technology, but applies to nearly all consumer products. The average person in 2020 has more and better stuff than their equivalent in 1980.

The qualification is that inflation-adjusted wages haven't improved that much. As curves go, it's pretty flat. And that's over the same period where measures of the overall economy, like the gross domestic product, have been growing at a pretty solid rate. That's because the growth has been going into other sectors, like the capital industries. The stock market, for instance, has grown at a rate that drastically outstrips the growth in wages. Which is a big part of the reason why the rich have been getting richer.

So while we're better off than we were in the 1970s, it can feel like the average worker is falling behind. That's because they are. The workers haven't shared fully in the economy growth. Their slice is bigger in overall terms, but it's a smaller part of the overall pie.

The standard of living hasn't improved in my family, if anything it is noticeably reduced. Not sure what you are on about here. Have you tried buying good quality clothing lately. Just start with that.