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Author Topic: 2020 Election Commentary  (Read 57416 times)

jhkim

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #390 on: October 22, 2020, 04:11:13 pm »
The only reason why coal can be profitable is because they are allowed to dump poisons into the environment without repercussion - while nuclear and other industries are held to much stricter regulation. The pollution caused by coal has clearly proven negative effects on the workers as well as everyone else, costing thousands of lives every year. That's a clear network externality. Government needs to regulate, or coal can continue to profit by shitting on everyone else. It's foolish and harmful to prop it up.

I'm all for helping former miners find other work, but poisoning everyone so they can keep doing the job they used to is not a positive for the nation.
It sounds like your issue isn't with Trump supporting coal, or coal power, but the specific regulations (or lack therof) that exist now.

If you don't live near convenient hydroelectric power, hydrocarbon is the only viable alternative right now. Those electric cars need to pollute somehow to juice up their batteries.
Minor nitpick: Nuclear currently generates around 20% of U.S. power, along with 7% hydroelectric, 7% wind, and 2% solar. (source) Still, I agree that hydrocarbon is necessary and can't be avoided - but that doesn't mean that we should be actively promoting it - particularly coal which is the most polluting form.

Yes, I have a problem with the regulations - and Trump has been promoting coal power by weakening the regulations that exist around it, among other things. Trump supporters say that those regulations were pointless (like jeff37923) but in general I disagree. Coal is the most polluting of modern energy sources. It releases not just carbon dioxide, but also particulates, mercury, lead, and other contaminants into the atmosphere. Coal is responsible for about 40% of the mercury release in the U.S., for example. This study found that "between 2005 and 2016, the shutdown of coal-fired units saved an estimated 26,610 lives and 570 million bushels of corn, soybeans and wheat in their immediate vicinities". That's purely in local effects.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200106141445.htm

In general, air pollution has been improving in the U.S. - but it's still a huge cost that is born by the country and not the industries producing it.


Idealism is all fine and nice, but does fuck all during an actual war. Pontificating in ivory towers about shouldland is best left to the pseudo-intellectuals because they literally offer nothing valuable that's applicable to real life.
Except we're not at fucking war. America's problems today are not caused by assault from another country - they're overwhelmingly caused by ourselves. As a whole, our country has more material wealth than we have ever had - but lots of Americans are still miserable.

Intellectual pursuits like science and economics *do* apply to real life -- and turning against them has just made us more ignorant and miserable. Further, ideals like caring about truth, justice, equality, and our fellow human beings have measurable results in making use less miserable.


Further, modern coal-burning plants are some of the most sophisticated things ever created and are essentially carbon-neutral once you factor in all the mitigation protocols during the process. Just like modern diesel engines...which are FAR more environmentally friendly than electric, but you'll never hear a leftist utter such words as that would totally blow holes in their "climate change" agenda. If they're so concerned with the climate, why do they fly around in private jets and live in 10k sqft houses?
Source on this? All the scientific sources that I read are roughly in agreement. Modern coal might be cleaner than older coal plants, but they are still the most polluting source out there - of not just carbon dioxide, but also mercury, lead, and particulates. Here's one analysis, for example:

https://noharm-uscanada.org/sites/default/files/documents-files/828/Health_Effects_Coal_Use_Energy_Generation.pdf

consolcwby

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #391 on: October 23, 2020, 01:39:14 am »
Wait. I thought we were all going to be living in an ice age eating soylent green by 1997 unless we did something by 1977.... oh, that's right. Those scientists' predictions ere WRONG! As was needing to decrease the world population in order to feed the world - especially since arable land was going to be toxic by 1989. Oh, wait - I forgot, they said that in 1969. Wait. What about that planet roaster pipeline from Canada. That's right! By 2030 we'll all be living underwater or on Al Gore's Ark! Thank goodness! I really thought THE COAL was gonna DO US ALL IN FOR GOOD. *sigh*

Wat fud.

Sauce: https://www.foxnews.com/science/10-times-experts-predicted-the-world-would-end-by-now
(I remember all this when I went to school and they are SEVERELY UNDERPLAYING all this shite that was THE GOSPEL TRUTH ACCORDING TO SCIENCE! You know, those evil people whose maths are racist! And are either white, know someone white, wear white lab coats, or are fashists anyway!) :P

Update: I watched the debates... It was entertaining to say the least. I was very surprised with Joe Biden! He seemed very lucid tonight. Of course, I remember his run from 87, as well as Trump's.  An OSR election, or at least it would be if Biden's VP pick was Hubert Humphreys! lol... Here's a cool thing I found: https://youtu.be/_f2Z30j61aw This world is truly F**KED. lol
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 02:31:23 am by consolcwby »
-----------------------------------------------------------------------                    snip                    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                                   https://youtu.be/Br3LRj2pwAs

jhkim

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #392 on: October 23, 2020, 03:46:51 am »
Sauce: https://www.foxnews.com/science/10-times-experts-predicted-the-world-would-end-by-now
(I remember all this when I went to school and they are SEVERELY UNDERPLAYING all this shite that was THE GOSPEL TRUTH ACCORDING TO SCIENCE! You know, those evil people whose maths are racist! And are either white, know someone white, wear white lab coats, or are fashists anyway!) :P

So there's a list that spans multiple decades by "experts" in a variety of fields ranging from metallurgy to climate, looking for predictions that were wrong. And what did they come up with:

#1: A verbal statement on global warming by Noel Brown, who has a PhD in International Relations and served as a director at the U.N.

#2: A pop-culture book on famine written by a PhD plant pathologist (William Paddock) and a veteran of the Foreign Service (Paul Paddock).

#3: Verbal quotes on global freezing from a professor with a PhD in Zoology (Ken Watt), and a physics B.A. and educator (Nigel Calder).

#4: Another verbal statement on global warming by Noel Brown from #1.

#5: There doesn’t appear to be any #5.

#6: Verbal statement by Al Gore, for his film. Gore has a B.A. in Government and of course a career as a politician.

#7: Vague verbal statement on environmental disaster by Mostafa Tolba, who was a PhD plant pathologist and U.N. administrator.

#8: Verbal statement on mass extinction from Gaylord Nelson, who was a lawyer and U.S. Senator who supported environmental causes including Earth Day.

#9: Publication in Scientific American by Harrison Brown, a prominent PhD nuclear geochemist.

#10: Not actually a prediction, but a verbal statement by climatologist Stephen Schneider about talking to the public in simplified terms - and a similar quote by Timothy Wirth, who has a PhD in Education and was a U.S. Senator.


The only one of these that comes close to being a scientific prediction is #9 about metallurgy, if it is true. None of the others are even from scientists working in their fields, let alone peer-reviewed publications. I haven't read the source for #9 yet - maybe it really is a bad prediction, though it might also be misinterpreted.

Scientists do really make mistakes from time to time - it's possible that this was a real blunder. But the track record of published, peer-reviewed science is *vastly* better than the statements of politicians, administrators, activists, YouTubers, and pundits. Even if #9 is genuine blunder, I don't see how that should change my view of science as a whole compared to other sources.

Ghostmaker

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #393 on: October 23, 2020, 07:51:54 am »
You wanna talk about Michael Mann, jhkim?

Brad

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #394 on: October 23, 2020, 09:24:07 am »
Except we're not at fucking war. America's problems today are not caused by assault from another country - they're overwhelmingly caused by ourselves. As a whole, our country has more material wealth than we have ever had - but lots of Americans are still miserable.

Intellectual pursuits like science and economics *do* apply to real life -- and turning against them has just made us more ignorant and miserable. Further, ideals like caring about truth, justice, equality, and our fellow human beings have measurable results in making use less miserable.

Thank you for fully proving my point. You are willfully ignorant of simple facts, like China actively trying to undermine our government and destroy the US from within, all while being "intellectually superior" due to a piece of paper. The reason people are ignorant and miserable is because they turned away from what really matters: family, God, and hard work.

Quote
Source on this? All the scientific sources that I read are roughly in agreement. Modern coal might be cleaner than older coal plants, but they are still the most polluting source out there - of not just carbon dioxide, but also mercury, lead, and particulates. Here's one analysis, for example:

https://noharm-uscanada.org/sites/default/files/documents-files/828/Health_Effects_Coal_Use_Energy_Generation.pdf

Why do "climate change scientists" fly around in jets to conferences all over the world? Why aren't people advocating for putting a stop to major sources of greenhouse gasses like volcanoes and the Amazon rain forest? How does paying higher taxes magically fix the weather?

Maybe you need to stop being such a fucktard.

Scientists do really make mistakes from time to time - it's possible that this was a real blunder. But the track record of published, peer-reviewed science is *vastly* better than the statements of politicians, administrators, activists, YouTubers, and pundits. Even if #9 is genuine blunder, I don't see how that should change my view of science as a whole compared to other sources.

Peer-reviewed science is total horseshit, sorry. It's agenda driven for the most part, and a lot of studies are based on falsified results. Your inability to even entertain the idea that "scientists" have any sort of personal stake in the outcome of their research is not only ridiculous but makes you look even more foolish than I thought possible. You are an actual moron.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 09:26:53 am by Brad »

tenbones

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #395 on: October 23, 2020, 11:23:45 am »
Am I the only one around here that literally does not give a single shit about "Climate Change"?

I honestly don't. Every time someone brings it up, it turns into their doomsday apocalypse prophecy that literally NO ONE reading this can affect (and likely don't practice being carbon-neutral in their own lives) - and the proponents of these ideas are likewise doing nothing to affect things other than pontificate about it.  Or worse, they're profiting off the phenomenon by pumping fear in order for you to buy their shit.

It's disingenuous in its presentation and practice. It's not economically feasible by their own proponents (unless you buy their shit). It's the scientific equivalent of angels-pinhead-dancing-calculation in discussion and completely free of reality. And if America were "carbon-neutral" it would not change one single thing.

This is a horribly designed game.

Ghostmaker

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #396 on: October 23, 2020, 11:44:47 am »
Nah, I'm there with you, tenbones.

The problem I've had for a while has been the deceptive practices of the so called 'climate experts'. The models don't match up, the data is massaged, and the raw results always seem to go mysteriously missing. The infamous 'Climategate' emails basically killed any interest I had in the phenomena.

Now I'm being lectured by an autistic moppet who should be down on her knees thanking modern civilization that she hasn't been married off like so much chattel in exchange for a dowry.

Brad

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #397 on: October 23, 2020, 12:17:23 pm »
Am I the only one around here that literally does not give a single shit about "Climate Change"?

My research is specifically in green energy, so I have to read a ton of crap about climate change. Fundamentally, I think green energy is a perfectly valid concept: why pollute if you don't have to? It's also important to find renewable sources of energy specifically because computing power is increasing at an astronomical rate and we might literally be unable to power datacenters and whatever else, which means stuff like phones and computers and pretty much anything reliant on the Internet will cease to operate. So it's a big deal, but NOT in the way leftist try to frame the problem.

RE: climate change, it is 100% total horseshit. 100%. Anyone who believes otherwise is a goddamn moron, sorry. I have read so many fucking studies on this shit, and we are essentially helpless to alter the climate in any meaningful way. Yet, everything is based on blaming humans for fucking up the climate.

Anyone remember when cow farts were going to cause the next ice age? That's what passes as legitimate scientific study in the real of climate change, speculating that due to the vast number of cattle used for human consumption releasing methane into the atmosphere, humans are actually responsible for the Earth getting all fucked up. It ALWAYS goes back to how humans are the root cause of any sort of cooling or warming on Earth, never anything else. Ever.

Climate change "science" is nothing more than modern day snake oil and leftist fucktards eat it up like it's candy. Feels over facts! Humans are bad! We need to protect Mother Gaia! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 12:19:44 pm by Brad »

Brad

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #398 on: October 23, 2020, 12:17:46 pm »
Oops double post

RandyB

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #399 on: October 23, 2020, 01:07:14 pm »
Nah, I'm there with you, tenbones.

The problem I've had for a while has been the deceptive practices of the so called 'climate experts'. The models don't match up, the data is massaged, and the raw results always seem to go mysteriously missing. The infamous 'Climategate' emails basically killed any interest I had in the phenomena.

Now I'm being lectured by an autistic moppet who should be down on her knees thanking modern civilization that she hasn't been married off like so much chattel in exchange for a dowry.

If she's wasn't killed at birth for defects to begin with.

jhkim

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #400 on: October 23, 2020, 02:23:04 pm »
Now I'm being lectured by an autistic moppet who should be down on her knees thanking modern civilization that she hasn't been married off like so much chattel in exchange for a dowry.
I'll respond to some other points in a bit, but I have to ask: What is this about? Is it a reference to me, or to someone else here? It seems like a non-sequitur to the current conversation.

Ghostmaker

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #401 on: October 23, 2020, 03:51:58 pm »
I'll respond to some other points in a bit, but I have to ask: What is this about? Is it a reference to me, or to someone else here? It seems like a non-sequitur to the current conversation.
Greta Thunberg, the current darling of the watermelon left.

Shasarak

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #402 on: October 23, 2020, 04:50:02 pm »
I'll respond to some other points in a bit, but I have to ask: What is this about? Is it a reference to me, or to someone else here? It seems like a non-sequitur to the current conversation.
Greta Thunberg, the current darling of the watermelon left.

How dare you!



 ;D
"There can be no middle ground with bigots. Bigots want to deny the rights and livelihood of people different from them. They want them to cease existing, either by going underground or by murdering them. There is no "let's meet in the middle" with that. To suggest there can be is ignorance" RPGNet

jhkim

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #403 on: October 23, 2020, 04:58:54 pm »
I'll respond to some other points in a bit, but I have to ask: What is this about? Is it a reference to me, or to someone else here? It seems like a non-sequitur to the current conversation.
Greta Thunberg, the current darling of the watermelon left.
Ah. Thanks for the clarification, Ghostmaker.

Ratman_tf

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #404 on: October 23, 2020, 06:45:06 pm »
Am I the only one around here that literally does not give a single shit about "Climate Change"?

I honestly don't. Every time someone brings it up, it turns into their doomsday apocalypse prophecy that literally NO ONE reading this can affect (and likely don't practice being carbon-neutral in their own lives) - and the proponents of these ideas are likewise doing nothing to affect things other than pontificate about it.  Or worse, they're profiting off the phenomenon by pumping fear in order for you to buy their shit.

It's disingenuous in its presentation and practice. It's not economically feasible by their own proponents (unless you buy their shit). It's the scientific equivalent of angels-pinhead-dancing-calculation in discussion and completely free of reality. And if America were "carbon-neutral" it would not change one single thing.

This is a horribly designed game.

I give a single shit or maybe two. The climate narrative is driving some very bad decisions about alternative energy, nuclear power and pollution. Not to mention it's one of those polarizing dog whistles. "You don't believe in climate change? Which oil company bought you?"
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