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Author Topic: 2020 Election Commentary  (Read 26089 times)

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #255 on: September 23, 2020, 04:08:07 pm »
Why am I doing this? Because all of your posting on this subject has done more to confuse things than provide clarity. Hey, there was a group calling themselves BLM that had goals different from the BLM that we commonly know of and have been talking about. They got hit with a cease & desist by BLM. So what? Does that change what the goals are of  big BLM? Does it make big BLM more transparent? No?


Does that make sense to you now?
No. That makes it seems like you're driven by an agenda, and the only measure of things is whether they support or oppose that agenda, facts be damned.

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #256 on: September 23, 2020, 04:09:05 pm »
That's not too far from how I feel about the usual assholes here. Welcome to the other side of theRPGsite's fourth wall.
To be fair, you mostly post the same way these days.

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #257 on: September 23, 2020, 04:52:51 pm »

Yeah, I had been watching this back and forth for a few days now and it just didn’t seem right to me. The lack of self awareness just made my truth-sense go haywire. Too many people making personal attacks over someone bringing up counterpoints—without bothering to refute anything—then taking issue with being called “tribalistic”. Like there’s another likely explanation why someone would take issue with somebody else digging holes into their political posturing. Even made start thinking maybe HappyDaze had a point about this place turning into an echo chamber.
It's not a complete echo chamber, there are a few members of the valiant opposition, and a few people who don't neatly fit into boxes. But there has been a problem with dogpiling for a long while. I don't think it's deliberate, it's just a natural consequence when there's only one person speaking from one position, and a half a dozen speaking against it. That imbalance means the number of replies can get overwhelming, and on top of that there seems to be a wolfpack effect where the posters who gang up get more vicious because of the perceived moral support. That's why I generally don't respond to those solitary posters, or drop out of the discussion when a wolfpack starts to form. There's also been a growing tendency, in just the last month or two, toward rah-rah cheerleader posts, rather than substantive content. That probably just feeds the wolfpack tendencies. Since these all make it more likely that the people who aren't part of the dominant bloc will burn out and quit, it does have the tendency to make the place more of an echo chamber.

I'm not sure if there's a good solution. I seem to value free speech more than most on the board, so I'm not a fan of most of the obvious attempts to address it. I just occasionally engage in metadiscussions like this, in order to raise awareness, though I doubt it has much effect.

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #258 on: September 23, 2020, 04:59:16 pm »
Is this what it's come to when having a conversation one either agrees 1000% with the person or everyone else is the "enemy". If some here wanted an echo chamber why go to forums where one knows that the majority of the posters will either disagree and give push-back.
If you're talking to me, you should quote me or refer to me by name. This passive aggressive dancing around doesn't help.

And if you are talking to me, I'm fine with opposition. You'll notice I haven't faded away. The problem is the complete lack of arguments. I'm just being randomly insulted, for no reason I can grok. That's boring. I want to have discussions with people who don't think like I do, and try to understand where they're coming from. Not these shadowgames of we hate you but we we won't tell you why. That's why I've been constantly bringing the discussion back on topic, and bringing up more details, information, and sources. I want people to dispute what I'm saying, because that's one of the best ways to refine and develop my own beliefs.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 05:02:28 pm by Pat »

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #259 on: September 23, 2020, 05:13:49 pm »
There is a broad spectrum of supporters for BLM, from evangelical churches to companies like IBM as well as many grassroots supporters. The supporters do not believe that BLM causes violence. Rather, they feel that the violence is a result of the racial tension caused by deaths in police custody - just like most anti-abortion advocates do not endorse or support the violence and terrorism associated with it.
That's the public narrative, and there is definitely is a vocal minority and possibility a plurality who truly believe in the cause. But I'm not sure most of the ostensible supporters are true believers. A lot of businesses in areas that might suffer from riots put up signs in support of BLM, because they hope it will reduce the chances their shop will be looted or burned. And several larger companies have been targets of public shame campaigns for not being proactively anti-racist enough, which is sufficient to explain why a lot of other companies are making public statements of support. I don't doubt there are some true believers, but a lot of this is the virtue signaling/PR/marketing equivalent of Mafia protection rackets.

deadDMwalking

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #260 on: September 23, 2020, 05:14:51 pm »
Act Blue is a payment portal that is associated with liberal causes.  There are many payment portals that people are familiar with, like Kickstarter and GoFundMe.  If there is a BLM kickstarter, (and there are several) it does not mean that money you pledge to The Scarlet Citadel goes to support BLM decals.  They're different projects that all use the same funding site.  ActBlue works in a similar way - there are approximately 15,000 causes/candidates that you can donate to via ActBlue.  A donation to Doug Jones isn't the same as a donation to Joe Biden and isn't the same as a donation to BLM.  But you can donate to ALL OF THEM if you want to.  Unlike Kickstarter, ActBlue is political - they're devoted to 'liberal' causes and candidates.  You cannot donate to Mitch McConnell or Donald Trump on ActBlue, but that doesn't mean that a donation to one candidate or cause automatically means you support EVERY candidate and cause, just like supporting one KickStarter doesn't mean you support EVERY Kickstarter. 


Hopefully that Analogy makes it sufficiently clear for the slow kids in the class.  You don't donate TO ActBlue, you donate THROUGH ActBlue and you have to designate the recipient BEFORE you donate. 


When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

jeff37923

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #261 on: September 23, 2020, 06:29:15 pm »
Why am I doing this? Because all of your posting on this subject has done more to confuse things than provide clarity. Hey, there was a group calling themselves BLM that had goals different from the BLM that we commonly know of and have been talking about. They got hit with a cease & desist by BLM. So what? Does that change what the goals are of  big BLM? Does it make big BLM more transparent? No?


Does that make sense to you now?
No. That makes it seems like you're driven by an agenda, and the only measure of things is whether they support or oppose that agenda, facts be damned.


Hmmmm.....Well, being against community action groups started by Marxists who support violent protesting in order to build a new nation in the ashes of the old and being aided by politicians who should know better - yeah, I am against that. I guess that not spreading around burning, looting, and murder for Marxism is my agenda.


You've done it, Pat. You've found me out. Good job.

HappyDaze

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #262 on: September 23, 2020, 06:43:30 pm »
That's not too far from how I feel about the usual assholes here. Welcome to the other side of theRPGsite's fourth wall.
To be fair, you mostly post the same way these days.
You're not going to get me to feel bad about calling out the assholes that support escalating violence against others for their beliefs.

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #263 on: September 23, 2020, 06:44:50 pm »
Why am I doing this? Because all of your posting on this subject has done more to confuse things than provide clarity. Hey, there was a group calling themselves BLM that had goals different from the BLM that we commonly know of and have been talking about. They got hit with a cease & desist by BLM. So what? Does that change what the goals are of  big BLM? Does it make big BLM more transparent? No?


Does that make sense to you now?
No. That makes it seems like you're driven by an agenda, and the only measure of things is whether they support or oppose that agenda, facts be damned.


Hmmmm.....Well, being against community action groups started by Marxists who support violent protesting in order to build a new nation in the ashes of the old and being aided by politicians who should know better - yeah, I am against that. I guess that not spreading around burning, looting, and murder for Marxism is my agenda.


You've done it, Pat. You've found me out. Good job.
I oppose them for quite a few more reasons than that, but I prefer to base it on facts, not falsehoods.

Hawkwing7423

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #264 on: September 23, 2020, 06:55:11 pm »
Which part of that post is a falsehood? Burning, looting, murder, or Marxism?

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #265 on: September 23, 2020, 07:09:00 pm »
Which part of that post is a falsehood? Burning, looting, murder, or Marxism?
Sigh.

The whole discussion for the past umpteenth pages has been about ActBlue, and their relationship with BLM. Jeff and others were saying ActBlue was funneling money donated to BLM to Biden, based on the DONATE button on BLM's homepage. That's false, it's not how ActBlue operates, it's a fundraising platform and payment processor. They passthrough the money donated to the specific charities or other organizations, it's not a general fund they shift around.

This last post is just Jeff trying to reframe the discussion to make it about him fighting a valiant fight against BLM, and implying that anyone who disagrees with him is supporting them. Which is absolute nonsense, all he's been doing is making disparaging remarks, while I've been trying to figure out the truth.

jeff37923

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #266 on: September 23, 2020, 08:06:21 pm »
Which part of that post is a falsehood? Burning, looting, murder, or Marxism?
Sigh.

The whole discussion for the past umpteenth pages has been about ActBlue, and their relationship with BLM. Jeff and others were saying ActBlue was funneling money donated to BLM to Biden, based on the DONATE button on BLM's homepage. That's false, it's not how ActBlue operates, it's a fundraising platform and payment processor. They passthrough the money donated to the specific charities or other organizations, it's not a general fund they shift around.

This last post is just Jeff trying to reframe the discussion to make it about him fighting a valiant fight against BLM, and implying that anyone who disagrees with him is supporting them. Which is absolute nonsense, all he's been doing is making disparaging remarks, while I've been trying to figure out the truth.


Yup, because I am a White Knight and not just some opinionated asshole on a message board. Please, will someone help me lift this cross off of Pat? I think that it is more than he can bear.

deadDMwalking

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #267 on: September 23, 2020, 08:20:34 pm »
I think it would be nice if everyone who posted in the last three pages conceded that the point Pat has been making (to reiterate, payments to BLM are not directly paid to the Biden campaign, even if both process through ActBlue) would concede that Pat is correct and if it APPEARED they were disagreeing on that point, they were at the very least being misunderstood or, and this might be a bridge too far, but admit they were wrong.

When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

There is nothing so useless as doing efficiently that which should not be done at all. - Peter Drucker

Shasarak

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #268 on: September 23, 2020, 08:30:40 pm »
I'm thinking of starting a Black Lives Matter organization so I can get in on the cash grab.
My idea was to have an All Blacks Lives Matter dedicated to help overthrow the evil Wallabies and Springboks who always try and oppress them and take their trophies away.
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Ratman_tf

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #269 on: September 23, 2020, 08:46:42 pm »
That's not too far from how I feel about the usual assholes here. Welcome to the other side of theRPGsite's fourth wall.
To be fair, you mostly post the same way these days.
You're not going to get me to feel bad about calling out the assholes that support escalating violence against others for their beliefs.


Let me know when you get around to that.
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