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Author Topic: 2020 Election Commentary  (Read 23200 times)

jeff37923

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #240 on: September 21, 2020, 08:56:22 pm »
The level of mental gymnastics on display because someone just won't admit they're full of shit is astounding.
That's not a nice thing to say about Jeff.


I find it interesting that liberals supporting BLM say that they don't really mean to defund the police and that they are pro-cop, but when the leadership of BLM is interviewed they want to completely abolish the police (with defunding being a euphemism for that).


So yeah, when you use buzzfeed and MSN as sources, I don't consider them to be good examples of accurate reporting.

SHARK

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #241 on: September 21, 2020, 09:28:58 pm »

Greetings!


BLM is a hateful, racist organization of Marxists seeking to overthrow and destroy the United States of America, and Western Civilization in general. I have seen plenty of their own videos, their own interviews, and their own quotes to know all about what they stand for and what their mission and goals are. Then, of course, there is also the litany of live-action videos of the BLM followers in action, attacking, burning, looting, and screaming in hate towards anyone that opposes them.


Fuck BLM. And Antifa. The anarchists, the terrorists, the Marxists, the fucking brain-dead zombies that worship them and gulp their hateful shit down like it is gospel from on high. The sooner they are all hunted down and crushed, the better we shall all be.


Ben Shapiro, Andrew Klavan, Michael Knowles, Matt Walsh, all of The Daily Wire, are certainly not confused about who BLM is. Neither is Glenn Beck, Dennis Prager, Dan Bongino, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingram, Rush Limbaugh, Candace Owens, Brandon Tatum, Larry Elder, Terrence Popp, Tim Pool, Salty Cracker, or Pastor John MacArthur, of Grace Community Church. Let alone AG William Barr, the head of Homeland Security, or President Donald Trump.


Semper Fidelis,


SHARK
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Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #242 on: September 21, 2020, 09:31:20 pm »
I find it interesting that liberals supporting BLM say that they don't really mean to defund the police and that they are pro-cop, but when the leadership of BLM is interviewed they want to completely abolish the police (with defunding being a euphemism for that).


So yeah, when you use buzzfeed and MSN as sources, I don't consider them to be good examples of accurate reporting.
So I'm a liberal? And I support BLM?

That's fucking insane. But it's nice to hear one of you actually finally come out and say it. I suspected it, but I was never quite sure, because your posts have been so void of content.

That's why this has been so fucking surreal. I'm being attacked by people who won't debate any points I make, and everything they say appears to come from bizarroworld because their responses seem to be based on assumptions about me that are completely assbackwards.

It proves my tribalism hypothesis, tho. You labeled me an enemy based on -- well, hell if I know what. Something trivial and irrelevant, certainly. And then you assigned me politics based on whatever dogwhistle you imagine you heard. You got them pretty much 100% wrong, BTW.

And to address your attempt at a point, I've never heard a single person say that BLM is pro-cop, even liberals. Liberals, or at least their progressive wing, are the ones screaming defund the police, and even the more moderate types are in full-on pander mode and don't dare contradict the narrative. So that entire argument is nonsense.

Also, I used Buzzfeed because they were cited by Charity Navigator. I know nothing about them beyond that, and don't care. And I've cited probably 20 or 30 sources, and MSN is one of the most trivial, supporting a minor aside, and something that's unlikely to be misreported because it's really just a statement by BLM of how they're spending money (which is hard to find, because they're as transparent as a brick). It's basically a press release, not an analysis or investigative reporting. So you're clearly still combing through my posts looking for things you can cherry pick out of context and object to, because damn, I'm the Enemy. I have to believe all the insane shit you assigned me, don't I?

Fuck you and your tribalism. I'm the enemy of people like you, whatever their political beliefs.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 09:33:33 pm by Pat »

jeff37923

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #243 on: September 21, 2020, 09:47:34 pm »
I find it interesting that liberals supporting BLM say that they don't really mean to defund the police and that they are pro-cop, but when the leadership of BLM is interviewed they want to completely abolish the police (with defunding being a euphemism for that).


So yeah, when you use buzzfeed and MSN as sources, I don't consider them to be good examples of accurate reporting.
So I'm a liberal? And I support BLM?

That's fucking insane. But it's nice to hear one of you actually finally come out and say it. I suspected it, but I was never quite sure, because your posts have been so void of content.

That's why this has been so fucking surreal. I'm being attacked by people who won't debate any points I make, and everything they say appears to come from bizarroworld because their responses seem to be based on assumptions about me that are completely assbackwards.

It proves my tribalism hypothesis, tho. You labeled me an enemy based on -- well, hell if I know what. Something trivial and irrelevant, certainly. And then you assigned me politics based on whatever dogwhistle you imagine you heard. You got them pretty much 100% wrong, BTW.

And to address your attempt at a point, I've never heard a single person say that BLM is pro-cop, even liberals. Liberals, or at least their progressive wing, are the ones screaming defund the police, and even the more moderate types are in full-on pander mode and don't dare contradict the narrative. So that entire argument is nonsense.

Also, I used Buzzfeed because they were cited by Charity Navigator. I know nothing about them beyond that, and don't care. And I've cited probably 20 or 30 sources, and MSN is one of the most trivial, supporting a minor aside, and something that's unlikely to be misreported because it's really just a statement by BLM of how they're spending money (which is hard to find, because they're as transparent as a brick). It's basically a press release, not an analysis or investigative reporting. So you're clearly still combing through my posts looking for things you can cherry pick out of context and object to, because damn, I'm the Enemy. I have to believe all the insane shit you assigned me, don't I?

Fuck you and your tribalism. I'm the enemy of people like you, whatever their political beliefs.




The only thing that's calling you a liberal is the voices in your head.

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #244 on: September 21, 2020, 09:48:16 pm »
And this is not even to say that Pat is necessarily correct (though, I am inclined to believe that they’re at least closer to reality), but that NOBODY (and anyone here is free to bring me a quote proving otherwise) is even attempting to actually refute anything that Pat said with actual data. It’s basically just people whining that Pat is raining on their parade by pointing out contradicting data with actual links to back up what he/she says. And you don’t even realize it! The whole thing is just wild. ;D
I'm not sure they're correct, I'm just reporting what I can find. But there's a lot of bad information out there, key among them idea that ActBlue is funneling money from BLM to Joe Biden. The so-called "smoking gun" of the DONATE button is based on a bad misunderstanding; it's just not a feasible mechanism.

That isn't a defense of BLM. I've pointed, endlessly, how they're a black hole for money. Nor does it absolve ActBlue; but as far as I can tell, their biggest sin is being too effective. They're figured out the secret sauce for getting lots of small donations from progressives, primarily to support Democratic political candidates, but also other kinds of progressive causes. This is especially important because of campaign finance limits, and it's something the Republicans lack, despite their attempt at mimicry with WinRed.

I'm surprised by your post, BTW. I had a negative impression of you after our last major interaction.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 09:50:03 pm by Pat »

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #245 on: September 21, 2020, 09:48:53 pm »
The only thing that's calling you a liberal is the voices in your head.
The why did you quote my post? And why are you doing this? It makes zero sense to me.

jeff37923

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #246 on: September 21, 2020, 10:11:40 pm »
The only thing that's calling you a liberal is the voices in your head.
The why did you quote my post? And why are you doing this? It makes zero sense to me.


Because I'm on a phone at work and that is the quickest way to respond?


Why am I doing this? Because all of your posting on this subject has done more to confuse things than provide clarity. Hey, there was a group calling themselves BLM that had goals different from the BLM that we commonly know of and have been talking about. They got hit with a cease & desist by BLM. So what? Does that change what the goals are of  big BLM? Does it make big BLM more transparent? No?


Does that make sense to you now?

HappyDaze

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #247 on: September 22, 2020, 05:40:28 am »
So you're clearly still combing through my posts looking for things you can cherry pick out of context and object to, because damn, I'm the Enemy. I have to believe all the insane shit you assigned me, don't I?

Fuck you and your tribalism. I'm the enemy of people like you, whatever their political beliefs.
That's not too far from how I feel about the usual assholes here. Welcome to the other side of theRPGsite's fourth wall.

sureshot

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #248 on: September 22, 2020, 08:33:54 am »
Enough with the bullshit about when a poster(s) disagree with you then you are "enemy" garbage.


Is this what it's come to when having a conversation one either agrees 1000% with the person or everyone else is the "enemy". If some here wanted an echo chamber why go to forums where one knows that the majority of the posters will either disagree and give push-back.


I know this place and it's posters are not the easiest to get along with sometimes yet your not the victim here. No one is forcing anyone or everyone to come here and post. No gun is being held at your head with the threat of death if one does not post here.


Either here or elsewhere one has to accept that sometimes posters won't agree with you on a topic and move on. Save the martyrdom and victim crap for those who are actually going through real suffering.


It's like seeing a 5 year old who does not get their way and rush off to their parents and saying "I'M TELLING". Grow a thick skin or go elsewhere.

Ghostmaker

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #249 on: September 22, 2020, 11:02:26 am »
Honestly, at this point I don't really care. Trump is going to get another SCOTUS pick; the word is out that Romney will vote yes (I cannot help but wonder if someone passed him a note with Harry Reid's infamous response, when Reid was confronted about lying regarding Romney's tax returns: 'we won, didn't we?').


I also think it's very unlikely Sundown Joe will upset Trump. The Democrats have foolishly leashed their horses to the riots, and that will not make them popular no matter how many times they scream 'ORANGE MAN BAD'.


The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

VisionStorm

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #250 on: September 22, 2020, 12:46:32 pm »
And this is not even to say that Pat is necessarily correct (though, I am inclined to believe that they’re at least closer to reality), but that NOBODY (and anyone here is free to bring me a quote proving otherwise) is even attempting to actually refute anything that Pat said with actual data. It’s basically just people whining that Pat is raining on their parade by pointing out contradicting data with actual links to back up what he/she says. And you don’t even realize it! The whole thing is just wild. ;D
I'm not sure they're correct, I'm just reporting what I can find. But there's a lot of bad information out there, key among them idea that ActBlue is funneling money from BLM to Joe Biden. The so-called "smoking gun" of the DONATE button is based on a bad misunderstanding; it's just not a feasible mechanism.

That isn't a defense of BLM. I've pointed, endlessly, how they're a black hole for money. Nor does it absolve ActBlue; but as far as I can tell, their biggest sin is being too effective. They're figured out the secret sauce for getting lots of small donations from progressives, primarily to support Democratic political candidates, but also other kinds of progressive causes. This is especially important because of campaign finance limits, and it's something the Republicans lack, despite their attempt at mimicry with WinRed.

Yeah, I don’t think either of those organizations is good, but that doesn’t mean that therefore ActBlue is a giant funnel machine working under the mandate of the Democratic party. IIRC ActBlue started out as a way to help prop up progressive candidates and help them win out against Neo-Liberals, which make the core of the Democratic party—at least that was my impression of them years ago when I was on the progressive side. They aren’t there so much to help the Democratic party, but to help progressives get in, because there’s always been a schism between progressives and the Neo-Liberal establishment. Plus they pretty much report every cent they get—even small potato donations—to the Federal Election Commission. The idea that they’re working hand in hand with the Democratic party to funnel money and stuff just seems wrongheaded to me.

I'm surprised by your post, BTW. I had a negative impression of you after our last major interaction.

Yeah, I had been watching this back and forth for a few days now and it just didn’t seem right to me. The lack of self awareness just made my truth-sense go haywire. Too many people making personal attacks over someone bringing up counterpoints—without bothering to refute anything—then taking issue with being called “tribalistic”. Like there’s another likely explanation why someone would take issue with somebody else digging holes into their political posturing. Even made start thinking maybe HappyDaze had a point about this place turning into an echo chamber.

I tried to stay out of it at first, but it just made me feel like a hypocrite.

jhkim

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #251 on: September 22, 2020, 03:13:44 pm »
Yeah, I don’t think either of those organizations is good, but that doesn’t mean that therefore ActBlue is a giant funnel machine working under the mandate of the Democratic party. IIRC ActBlue started out as a way to help prop up progressive candidates and help them win out against Neo-Liberals, which make the core of the Democratic party—at least that was my impression of them years ago when I was on the progressive side. They aren’t there so much to help the Democratic party, but to help progressives get in, because there’s always been a schism between progressives and the Neo-Liberal establishment. Plus they pretty much report every cent they get—even small potato donations—to the Federal Election Commission. The idea that they’re working hand in hand with the Democratic party to funnel money and stuff just seems wrongheaded to me.
While there are legal technicalities depending on how different funds are organized, I don't see how it is a moral scandal or scam if funds from BLM-related organizations help Democrats.

It seems to me that BLM supporters are strongly pro-Democrat. Even if Biden doesn't endorse BLM because they're too radical, BLM supporters are most certainly going to prefer Biden to Trump. I would think most BLM donors would not have any moral objections to their funds being used to help elect Democrats - especially progressive candidates but even mainstream ones over Republicans. As long as it's reported correctly and fits with the donor's wishes, it doesn't seem like a scandal to me.

I'd want to see evidence if there is a legal violation of regulations, but it seems like no one has been showing those.


I'm surprised by your post, BTW. I had a negative impression of you after our last major interaction.
Yeah, I had been watching this back and forth for a few days now and it just didn’t seem right to me. The lack of self awareness just made my truth-sense go haywire. Too many people making personal attacks over someone bringing up counterpoints—without bothering to refute anything—then taking issue with being called “tribalistic”. Like there’s another likely explanation why someone would take issue with somebody else digging holes into their political posturing. Even made start thinking maybe HappyDaze had a point about this place turning into an echo chamber.

I tried to stay out of it at first, but it just made me feel like a hypocrite.
I try to avoid any speculation about other poster's motivation. To my mind, the focus should be on evidence and position. I think Pat at least provided a lot of evidence (that I haven't gotten through yet), but most responses have been about a few offhand comments of his.

Ratman_tf

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #252 on: September 22, 2020, 04:27:55 pm »
While there are legal technicalities depending on how different funds are organized, I don't see how it is a moral scandal or scam if funds from BLM-related organizations help Democrats.



Being associated with a movement that has caused the destruction of black owned businesses,  the deaths of black people, and massive riots and looting might be a sticking point.



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DocJones

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #253 on: September 22, 2020, 04:44:05 pm »
I find it interesting that liberals supporting BLM say that they don't really mean to defund the police and that they are pro-cop, but when the leadership of BLM is interviewed they want to completely abolish the police (with defunding being a euphemism for that).
Naw you definitely did misunderstand Pat.   I'm thinking of starting a Black Lives Matter organization so I can get in on the cash grab.
The purpose of my BLM organization would be a fund to elect prosecutors who would commit to enforcing laws against burning, looting and rioting.
And of course I'm going to collect a very generous salary. :-)


jhkim

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #254 on: September 23, 2020, 12:31:59 pm »
While there are legal technicalities depending on how different funds are organized, I don't see how it is a moral scandal or scam if funds from BLM-related organizations help Democrats.
Being associated with a movement that has caused the destruction of black owned businesses,  the deaths of black people, and massive riots and looting might be a sticking point.
The point was about funding, not about the movement itself.

There is a broad spectrum of supporters for BLM, from evangelical churches to companies like IBM as well as many grassroots supporters. The supporters do not believe that BLM causes violence. Rather, they feel that the violence is a result of the racial tension caused by deaths in police custody - just like most anti-abortion advocates do not endorse or support the violence and terrorism associated with it.

Even if you disagree with the supporters, that doesn't make it a scandal that they donate money - any more than it would be a scandal if they vote. People with opposing views exist, and will vote, advocate, and donate money in accordance with their views.

The problem I have with hashtag movements like BLM is that overwhelmingly, it's just a litmus test of identity - not any specific policies. At this point, BLM is more organized than many other such movements. There is a platform created by organizers, but most supporters have never read that platform - and probably wouldn't agree with much of it.