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Author Topic: 2020 Election Commentary  (Read 9149 times)

Spinachcat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #225 on: September 20, 2020, 06:18:12 PM »
This RBG situation is entirely the fault of her hubris. Nobody else.
She was severely ill during Obama's 2nd term. She could have stepped down, helped oversee the choice and nomination of her replacement. She would have spent her last days being lauded by law schools and the media as the Queen of the Law. Nope. She CHOOSE to spend her last days nodding off on the job and barely existing until the eventual occurred.

"Notorious RBG" now exists as a stark object lesson. If Trump somehow wins and keeps the Senate, then the old conservative supremes need to ride into their sunset and let younger, equally (or more) conservative judges take their seats.

Plus, the Democrats have already promised to expand the Supreme Court and pack the seats, so let's bring on civil war or submission.

Let's really see what's left in America's nutsack.

DocJones

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #226 on: September 20, 2020, 07:27:28 PM »
BLM funnels money directly to the Democrat party. This is indisputable.
I disagree.  I'm pretty sure the people running BLM are embezzling pretty much all of it.

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #227 on: September 21, 2020, 07:13:02 AM »
I disagree.  I'm pretty sure the people running BLM are embezzling pretty much all of it.
That's a more reasonable claim, though you can have obscene salaries, fat expense accounts, and fund all your pet projects without violating any laws. The real question is what kind of financial stewardship Thousand Currents, or Tides as of a month or two ago, are providing. Those are the two charities that have lent BLM their 501(c)3 status, which means the money from ActBlue went to them, to manage for the BLM Foundation. That's enough layers of indirection to hide some sins, but both Tides and Thousands Currents have been around for 30 or more years, so at the very least they know how to handle the accounting and maintain a semblance of propriety.

I'm not familiar with either, so I looked them both up in Charity Navigator. Thousand Currents seems quite reputable. They're global, and get a high rating for financial accountability and transparency. Tides on the other hand gets a failing score. Which could suggest something about why BLM switched, though Thousand Currents claims that the reason BLM left is because TC decided to sunset their financial sponsorship program. Note while they're both a respectable size for a charity, they're fairly small, compared to the money BLM is bringing in -- TC has an annual revenue of about $6 million, and Tides is somewhat smaller at about $4 million.

Though how much BLM has raised is an open question. One hint is that in June, their Foundation announced a $6.5 million plan to support "grassroots" organizing (for definitions of "grassroots" that allow for funding from above, I assume). They also have plans in media and education, and have been sponsoring artists since 2015.

Okay, this is weird. Looked up BLM in Charity Navigator, and found the BLM Foundation, which has a "moderate" advisory that mentions a cease & desist order from the attorneys general of NY and California, and a Buzzfeed article that says the BLM Foundation has zero ties to the BLM organization that gets all the press:
Quote
The Black Lives Matter Foundation, a Santa Clarita, California–based charitable organization that has one paid employee and lists a UPS store as its address, has a very different goal, according to its founder: “bringing the community and police closer together.”
...
“I don't have anything to do with the Black Lives Matter Global Network. I never met them; never spoke to them. I don't know them; I have no relationship with them,” Robert Ray Barnes, the founder of the Black Lives Matter Foundation, told BuzzFeed News in a lengthy interview. “Our whole thing is having unity with the police department.”
Checked the BLM website, and the ActBlue link -- it says the money goes to the "Black Lives Matter Support Fund" at Tides. So the BLM Foundation" is an entirely different pro-cops group, and the money going to the real BLM is sent to a "Fund". Which sounds like Tides (and probably Thousands Currents before) are more directly handling the money (one of the two options for sponsorship legally turns the sponsored group into a branch of the sponsor), though that's a weak supposition. To further confuse things, the BLM Global Network Foundation is the full name of the popular BLM organization.

https://www.tides.org/
https://www.tides.org/our-community/partnerships/tides-welcomes-black-lives-matter/
https://thousandcurrents.org/
https://thousandcurrents.org/black-lives-matter/
https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/571138099
https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6372
https://blacklivesmatter.com/black-lives-matter-global-network-foundation-announces-6-5-million-fund-to-support-organizing-work/
https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/474143254
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6945175-CaliforniaAGCeaseandDesist-BLMFoundation.html
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ny-attorney-general-orders-black-lives-matter-foundation-to-stop-soliciting-donations/2502852/
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/black-lives-matter-foundation-unrelated-blm-donations
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 07:53:17 AM by Pat »

jeff37923

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #228 on: September 21, 2020, 08:05:45 AM »
I disagree.  I'm pretty sure the people running BLM are embezzling pretty much all of it.
That's a more reasonable claim, though you can have obscene salaries, fat expense accounts, and fund all your pet projects without violating any laws. The real question is what kind of financial stewardship Thousand Currents, or Tides as of a month or two ago, are providing. Those are the two charities that have lent BLM their 501(c)3 status, which means the money from ActBlue went to them, to manage for the BLM Foundation. That's enough layers of indirection to hide some sins, but both Tides and Thousands Currents have been around for 30 or more years, so at the very least they know how to handle the accounting and maintain a semblance of propriety.

I'm not familiar with either, so I looked them both up in Charity Navigator. Thousand Currents seems quite reputable. They're global, and get a high rating for financial accountability and transparency. Tides on the other hand gets a failing score. Which could suggest something about why BLM switched, though Thousand Currents claims that the reason BLM left is because TC decided to sunset their financial sponsorship program. Note while they're both a respectable size for a charity, they're fairly small, compared to the money BLM is bringing in -- TC has an annual revenue of about $6 million, and Tides is somewhat smaller at about $4 million.

Though how much BLM has raised is an open question. One hint is that in June, their Foundation announced a $6.5 million plan to support "grassroots" organizing (for definitions of "grassroots" that allow for funding from above, I assume). They also have plans in media and education, and have been sponsoring artists since 2015.

Okay, this is weird. Looked up BLM in Charity Navigator, and found the BLM Foundation, which has a "moderate" advisory that mentions a cease & desist order from the attorneys general of NY and California, and a Buzzfeed article that says the BLM Foundation has zero ties to the BLM organization that gets all the press:
Quote
The Black Lives Matter Foundation, a Santa Clarita, California–based charitable organization that has one paid employee and lists a UPS store as its address, has a very different goal, according to its founder: “bringing the community and police closer together.”
...
“I don't have anything to do with the Black Lives Matter Global Network. I never met them; never spoke to them. I don't know them; I have no relationship with them,” Robert Ray Barnes, the founder of the Black Lives Matter Foundation, told BuzzFeed News in a lengthy interview. “Our whole thing is having unity with the police department.”
Checked the BLM website, and the ActBlue link -- it says the money goes to the "Black Lives Matter Support Fund" at Tides. So the BLM Foundation" is an entirely different pro-cops group, and the money going to the real BLM is sent to a "Fund". Which sounds like Tides (and probably Thousands Currents before) are more directly handling the money (one of the two options for sponsorship legally turns the sponsored group into a branch of the sponsor), though that's a weak supposition. To further confuse things, the BLM Global Network Foundation is the full name of the popular BLM organization.

https://www.tides.org/
https://www.tides.org/our-community/partnerships/tides-welcomes-black-lives-matter/
https://thousandcurrents.org/
https://thousandcurrents.org/black-lives-matter/
https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/571138099
https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6372
https://blacklivesmatter.com/black-lives-matter-global-network-foundation-announces-6-5-million-fund-to-support-organizing-work/
https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/474143254
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/6945175-CaliforniaAGCeaseandDesist-BLMFoundation.html
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/ny-attorney-general-orders-black-lives-matter-foundation-to-stop-soliciting-donations/2502852/
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/black-lives-matter-foundation-unrelated-blm-donations


Not by any stretch of the imagination would I call BLM or any other group that demands to defund police to be "pro-cop".

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #229 on: September 21, 2020, 08:08:19 AM »
Not by any stretch of the imagination would I call BLM or any other group that demands to defund police to be "pro-cop".
That was the distinction I was making -- the BLM Foundation is pro-cop, in contrast to its more famous namesake.

jeff37923

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #230 on: September 21, 2020, 08:24:59 AM »
Not by any stretch of the imagination would I call BLM or any other group that demands to defund police to be "pro-cop".
That was the distinction I was making -- the BLM Foundation is pro-cop, in contrast to its more famous namesake.


All right. Fuck this. You can have all the personal definitions of things you want, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. It is just doublespeak.

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #231 on: September 21, 2020, 12:22:17 PM »
All right. Fuck this. You can have all the personal definitions of things you want, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. It is just doublespeak.
No, this is on you. What do you do, scan my posts for things you can maliciously misinterpret, and ignore all the rest of the context? Who would say that BLM (the famous one) is pro-cops? That makes no fucking sense. I was making a distinction between the BLM Global Network Foundation (the group all the rioters love), and the BLM Foundation (which apparently tries to work cooperatively with cops -- read the links). If you have trouble parsing basic sentences, then throw commas before and after "pro-cops group". That should make the meaning clear, even to you.

jeff37923

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #232 on: September 21, 2020, 02:11:04 PM »
All right. Fuck this. You can have all the personal definitions of things you want, but that doesn't change the reality of the situation. It is just doublespeak.
No, this is on you. What do you do, scan my posts for things you can maliciously misinterpret, and ignore all the rest of the context? Who would say that BLM (the famous one) is pro-cops? That makes no fucking sense. I was making a distinction between the BLM Global Network Foundation (the group all the rioters love), and the BLM Foundation (which apparently tries to work cooperatively with cops -- read the links). If you have trouble parsing basic sentences, then throw commas before and after "pro-cops group". That should make the meaning clear, even to you.


No, fuck-o. This is on you to explain yourself in a clear and concise manner if you want your message to be communicated effectively. Right now you are just throwing out a bunch of bullshit to obfuscate the fact that a cornerstone of BLM is to defund police departments which is anything but "pro-cop".

SHARK

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #233 on: September 21, 2020, 04:06:44 PM »

Greetings!


Yeah, when myself or anyone else refers to "BLM"--everyone knows what organization is being discussed. The fact that somewhere there exists an organization called "BLM The Sweet Garden Charity" is irrelevant.


Semper Fidelis,


SHARK
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"Courage is not the absence of fear, but is doing what you have to, in spite of the fear."
"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
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Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #234 on: September 21, 2020, 05:20:48 PM »
No, fuck-o. This is on you to explain yourself in a clear and concise manner if you want your message to be communicated effectively. Right now you are just throwing out a bunch of bullshit to obfuscate the fact that a cornerstone of BLM is to defund police departments which is anything but "pro-cop".
I literally said the opposite. If you twist and squint, you can make it say what you're claiming it says, but that defies the nature of the (real) BLM as understood both by their enemies and allies, my position on BLM (they're a Marxist hate group), and the sentence structure itself, which places the BLM and the faux-BLM groups in opposition. Requiring someone to write sentences with such clarity that they can't be misinterpreted by someone willing to ignore every last bit of context is completely unreasonable even in formal writing, much less in posts on an anti-swine messageboard. It's also literally impossible in many cases, at least without ballooning writing with a crazy number of caveats, given that the English language is a human language, not a form of mathematics or a programming language, and thus lacks their precision. That's why context, and not interpreting things as maliciously as possible, is essential to communication.

You cherry-picked something that could be interpreted two ways, and ignored the clear context that pointed to the other interpretation. Rather than criticizing or attacking you, I simply explained in neutral terms what I actually intended. Which should have ended it, because the author presumably knows what they meant. But no, you've been flipping out ever since.

So it's all on you.

Brad

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #235 on: September 21, 2020, 05:22:55 PM »
The level of mental gymnastics on display because someone just won't admit they're full of shit is astounding.

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #236 on: September 21, 2020, 05:32:31 PM »
Yeah, when myself or anyone else refers to "BLM"--everyone knows what organization is being discussed. The fact that somewhere there exists an organization called "BLM The Sweet Garden Charity" is irrelevant.
Evidence suggests otherwise. The cease and desist orders are because they were confusing people. The Buzzfeed article talks about a GoFundMe, and MSN expands on that by saying $4.35 million has been donated in error to the smaller group:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/millions-mistakenly-raised-for-black-lives-matter-group-not-associated-with-movement/ar-BB15wQMj

And this isn't just random people doing a search for BLM and accidentally donating to a guy in his garage. If you look around, there are quite a few published articles that are confusing BLM (burn loot murder) with the pro-cop (or at least cop-appeasing) BLM. Here's one that can't separate the two:
https://www.teaparty.org/top-black-lives-matter-activist-questions-where-the-millions-of-dollars-in-donations-are-going-no-one-knows-442947/
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 06:00:10 PM by Pat »

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #237 on: September 21, 2020, 05:32:48 PM »
The level of mental gymnastics on display because someone just won't admit they're full of shit is astounding.
That's not a nice thing to say about Jeff.

VisionStorm

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #238 on: September 21, 2020, 07:31:23 PM »
The level of mental gymnastics on display because someone just won't admit they're full of shit is astounding.

It is, but not the way you think. I’ve been following this side discussion on and off, and the only one I’ve seen make actual arguments, provide evidence or bring up verifiable facts has been Pat. Everyone else has just been engaging on wild speculation or character attacks because Pat is contradicting them with facts and specific details that you could look up, and if Pat is truly wrong about these details you could point them out and call them out on his (or her? It Pat!) BS.

Yet interestingly enough people ARE calling Pat’s BS... without pointing out ANY of the supposed BS. It is quite literally “OMG! You’re correcting and contradicting our wild, baseless and completely unsupported speculation! You’re full of shit!”

And this is not even to say that Pat is necessarily correct (though, I am inclined to believe that they’re at least closer to reality), but that NOBODY (and anyone here is free to bring me a quote proving otherwise) is even attempting to actually refute anything that Pat said with actual data. It’s basically just people whining that Pat is raining on their parade by pointing out contradicting data with actual links to back up what he/she says. And you don’t even realize it! The whole thing is just wild. ;D

jeff37923

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #239 on: September 21, 2020, 08:56:22 PM »
The level of mental gymnastics on display because someone just won't admit they're full of shit is astounding.
That's not a nice thing to say about Jeff.


I find it interesting that liberals supporting BLM say that they don't really mean to defund the police and that they are pro-cop, but when the leadership of BLM is interviewed they want to completely abolish the police (with defunding being a euphemism for that).


So yeah, when you use buzzfeed and MSN as sources, I don't consider them to be good examples of accurate reporting.