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Author Topic: 2020 Election Commentary  (Read 5753 times)

jeff37923

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #165 on: September 04, 2020, 03:16:24 PM »
If you follow the money trail, most of the money raised by BLM goes to support democrat politicians being elected anyways.
Do you have a citation for that? The argument I've seen is that if you click on donate on BLM's website, it goes to ActBlue, and that means it's being funneled to Democratic politicians. But ActBlue is really just a service they use to process the money, it's not the recipient. Many involved with BLM will support Democratic politicians, and there will be indirect effects, but it doesn't seem like there's a direct flow of money.


https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/expenditures.php?cycle=2020&cmte=c00401224


https://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/expenditures.php?cmte=C00401224&cycle=2020


https://secure.actblue.com/


There you go.

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #166 on: September 04, 2020, 03:38:46 PM »
If you follow the money trail, most of the money raised by BLM goes to support democrat politicians being elected anyways.
Do you have a citation for that? The argument I've seen is that if you click on donate on BLM's website, it goes to ActBlue, and that means it's being funneled to Democratic politicians. But ActBlue is really just a service they use to process the money, it's not the recipient. Many involved with BLM will support Democratic politicians, and there will be indirect effects, but it doesn't seem like there's a direct flow of money.


https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/expenditures.php?cycle=2020&cmte=c00401224


https://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/expenditures.php?cmte=C00401224&cycle=2020


https://secure.actblue.com/


There you go.
That's my point. That's not what any of that says. ActBlue is basically an online payment processor, which allows people to donate to different organizations (mostly blue politicians, but also BLM). It's not taking money from BLM, and handing it out to Biden and Bernie. It's the service that Biden, Bernie, and BLM use to take payments from people who are donating to those specific organizations. Think of it like American Express or PayPal.

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #167 on: September 04, 2020, 04:10:37 PM »
Dammit Pat. You're shooting holes in the SDNY's case against Bannon/Kolfage with those kinds of questions...  ;D
I thought Bannon was some kind of campaign architect, but after googling a bit it sounds like he was arrested for something related to fund raising. But my knowledge on the subject is too little to know what you mean.

deadDMwalking

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #168 on: September 04, 2020, 06:02:56 PM »
Dammit Pat. You're shooting holes in the SDNY's case against Bannon/Kolfage with those kinds of questions...  ;D
I thought Bannon was some kind of campaign architect, but after googling a bit it sounds like he was arrested for something related to fund raising. But my knowledge on the subject is too little to know what you mean.


Bannon was involved in a GoFundMe scam where people were donating their own money to build the wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for, but mostly he just kept the money.    He could consider his 'management' a billable expense but it certainly wasn't disclosed to donors and is scummy even if it does not turn out to be explicitly illegal.
When I say objectively, I mean 'subjectively'.  When I say literally, I mean 'figuratively'.  
And when I say that you are a horse's ass, I mean that the objective truth is that you are a literal horse's ass.

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Ratman_tf

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #169 on: September 04, 2020, 10:48:40 PM »
Fox News - More Than 175 current, former law enforcement officials endorse Joe Biden, slam Trump as 'lawless' president


https://twitter.com/GLFOP/status/1301887833012133894


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jeff37923

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #170 on: September 05, 2020, 12:04:53 AM »

That's my point. That's not what any of that says. ActBlue is basically an online payment processor, which allows people to donate to different organizations (mostly blue politicians, but also BLM). It's not taking money from BLM, and handing it out to Biden and Bernie. It's the service that Biden, Bernie, and BLM use to take payments from people who are donating to those specific organizations. Think of it like American Express or PayPal.


Then why does it have a large number of democrat candidates as recipients of ActBlue money and no other political party candidates of note?


Why does BLM use ActBlue to process the donation and not PayPal or American Express?

ActBlue is listed as a left-leaning PAC to help Democrat candidates, so why is BLM using them as a processor and not a neutral one?




« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 12:07:32 AM by jeff37923 »

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #171 on: September 05, 2020, 03:23:12 AM »
Then why does it have a large number of democrat candidates as recipients of ActBlue money and no other political party candidates of note?


Why does BLM use ActBlue to process the donation and not PayPal or American Express?

ActBlue is listed as a left-leaning PAC to help Democrat candidates, so why is BLM using them as a processor and not a neutral one?
Because they're explicitly a leftist organization. BLM presumably uses them because they're an effective fund raising tool, as well as being fellow travelers.

Found a better reference than Wikipedia:
https://www.influencewatch.org/political-party/actblue-pac/
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/actblue-civics/
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/actblue-charities/
https://www.influencewatch.org/for-profit/actblue-llc/

ActBlue started out as a website in 2004, created specifically to help Democratic candidates collect funds from a lot of smaller donors. They provide a number services, like allowing donors to save their credit card and use it to donate to multiple candidates, automating the filling out of fund raising forms, a variety of tools for optimizing fund raising campaigns, as well as relatively low transaction fees. The Republicans don't have an equivalent organization, which hobbles their ability to raise money from lots of small donors.

ActBlue is broken into a three separate branches, each supporting a different type of legal entity. One of the three is a PAC, the other two are 501(c)3 and 501(c)4 charitable/social welfare organizations, and each supports their own kind. All three provide the same basic fund raising platform services, and the funds they collect (minus transaction fees) are passed through to the entities chosen by the donors, rather than being distributed at ActBlue's discretion. All the groups they support are progressive, and the ones I recognize include the charities GLAAD, Mother Jones, and the Southern Poverty Law Center; the social welfare groups ACLU, NOW, and Planned Parenthood; and a bunch of PACs (which I don't know by name).

There's also a for-profit branch (an LLC), but it's unclear what its role is. Though it may be the original -- the three branches above were founded between 2009 and 2015, but the website dates to 2004.

This link has some more detail about the services ActBlue provides and where the money goes:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/01/23/actblue_fundraising_platform_strikes_gold_--_for_liberals_136068.html
Quote from: Real Clear Politics
"ActBlue works with candidates at the local, state, and national levels -- from school board races to presidential campaigns -- to squeeze every dollar out of their email fundraising pleas or the ubiquitous 'Donate' button on their websites," Kroll wrote.  "Engineers streamline the process of giving to a campaign or cause.  They toy with typefaces, reduce load times, and adapt the product to all devices and operating systems.  Like an Olympic sprinter in training, ActBlue obsesses over shaving off every millisecond."
Quote from: Real Clear Politics
[ActBlue] charges nothing for its services.  (It takes 4 percent of every donation to cover credit card processing fees.)  Operating costs are paid with tips left by donors and the occasional fundraising campaign.
Quote from: Real Clear Politics
The average contribution size [in 2017, including all 3 branches] was a very-"grassrootsy" $31.95.  More than half of all donors gave for the first time in 2017, and just over 40 percent of all contributions were made from a mobile device.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 05:13:12 AM by Pat »

jeff37923

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #172 on: September 05, 2020, 05:56:21 PM »
Then why does it have a large number of democrat candidates as recipients of ActBlue money and no other political party candidates of note?


Why does BLM use ActBlue to process the donation and not PayPal or American Express?

ActBlue is listed as a left-leaning PAC to help Democrat candidates, so why is BLM using them as a processor and not a neutral one?
Because they're explicitly a leftist organization. BLM presumably uses them because they're an effective fund raising tool, as well as being fellow travelers.

Found a better reference than Wikipedia:
https://www.influencewatch.org/political-party/actblue-pac/
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/actblue-civics/
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/actblue-charities/
https://www.influencewatch.org/for-profit/actblue-llc/

ActBlue started out as a website in 2004, created specifically to help Democratic candidates collect funds from a lot of smaller donors. They provide a number services, like allowing donors to save their credit card and use it to donate to multiple candidates, automating the filling out of fund raising forms, a variety of tools for optimizing fund raising campaigns, as well as relatively low transaction fees. The Republicans don't have an equivalent organization, which hobbles their ability to raise money from lots of small donors.

ActBlue is broken into a three separate branches, each supporting a different type of legal entity. One of the three is a PAC, the other two are 501(c)3 and 501(c)4 charitable/social welfare organizations, and each supports their own kind. All three provide the same basic fund raising platform services, and the funds they collect (minus transaction fees) are passed through to the entities chosen by the donors, rather than being distributed at ActBlue's discretion. All the groups they support are progressive, and the ones I recognize include the charities GLAAD, Mother Jones, and the Southern Poverty Law Center; the social welfare groups ACLU, NOW, and Planned Parenthood; and a bunch of PACs (which I don't know by name).

There's also a for-profit branch (an LLC), but it's unclear what its role is. Though it may be the original -- the three branches above were founded between 2009 and 2015, but the website dates to 2004.

This link has some more detail about the services ActBlue provides and where the money goes:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/01/23/actblue_fundraising_platform_strikes_gold_--_for_liberals_136068.html
Quote from: Real Clear Politics
"ActBlue works with candidates at the local, state, and national levels -- from school board races to presidential campaigns -- to squeeze every dollar out of their email fundraising pleas or the ubiquitous 'Donate' button on their websites," Kroll wrote.  "Engineers streamline the process of giving to a campaign or cause.  They toy with typefaces, reduce load times, and adapt the product to all devices and operating systems.  Like an Olympic sprinter in training, ActBlue obsesses over shaving off every millisecond."
Quote from: Real Clear Politics
[ActBlue] charges nothing for its services.  (It takes 4 percent of every donation to cover credit card processing fees.)  Operating costs are paid with tips left by donors and the occasional fundraising campaign.
Quote from: Real Clear Politics
The average contribution size [in 2017, including all 3 branches] was a very-"grassrootsy" $31.95.  More than half of all donors gave for the first time in 2017, and just over 40 percent of all contributions were made from a mobile device.


So, BLM which uses ActBlue, which is a self-proclaimed leftist payment processor, does not funnel money in support of liberal democrats running for office. So where does the money that BLM raises go? I'm asking because from what I can see, including what you have shown me, it still looks like a lot of it is going to support liberal democrat candidates.

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #173 on: September 05, 2020, 06:53:23 PM »
So, BLM which uses ActBlue, which is a self-proclaimed leftist payment processor, does not funnel money in support of liberal democrats running for office. So where does the money that BLM raises go? I'm asking because from what I can see, including what you have shown me, it still looks like a lot of it is going to support liberal democrat candidates.
I don't know where the money BLM raises is going. Looking around, it's an open question, because they're not very transparent. They've denied giving money directly to the DNC, and claim it's going to "civic engagement, expansion of chapters, Arts & Culture, organizing and digital advocacy resources and tools" (from an AskReddit thread), but that's pretty vague. For all we know, some of it may go to activism and candidates. At the very least, advocacy and engagement is likely to favor Democrats and Democratic causes, for a spillover effect. But that would be BLM acting directly, and unrelated to ActBlue.

I was mistaken about one thing: There is a Republican equivalent to ActBlue, called WinRed. Though it's new, formed in response to the record $700 million ActBlue raised in the 2018 midterms. WinRed is functionally about a year old, and there's been some pushback because apparently the fees and higher and at least some GOP candidates want to use other fund raising platforms (like Anedot).
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/07/16/backlash_ensues_as_rncs_winred_fundraising_hammer_falls.html

Do some more digging, it looks like the umbrella Black Lives Matter organization, called the Black Lives Matter Global Network (the "Global" is a recent addition), is a corporation, not a charity. They're the ones with the big ActBlue DONATE button on their website, but since ActBlue Charities only works with 501(c)3 organizations, that money technically goes to the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, which is "fiscally sponsored" by a 501(c)3 non-profit.

Their original sponsor (2016) was Thousand Currents, but after TC decided to stop sponsoring other organizations in order to focus more on their core mission, that role was taken over by Tides (in July 2020). Fiscal sponsorship is intended for organizations that plan to seek 501(c)3 status, but don't yet qualify (like not having a board, or not having filed in a state, or whatever). Looks like the sponsor creates a fund, which it uses to make grants to the sponsored group; or the sponsored group becomes legally part of the sponsor (probably the first).

The various chapters in different cities are independent.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/markets/the-story-behind-thousand-currents-the-charity-that-doles-out-the-millions-of-dollars-black-lives-matter-generates-in-donations/ar-BB15Ytxo
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/donations-to-black-lives-matter-group-dont-go-to-dnc/
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/19/19-1108/141260/20200409134118279_19-1108BriefOfRespondent.pdf
https://www.peoples-law.org/fiscal-sponsorship-alternative-filing-501c3-tax-exempt-status
https://www.tides.org/our-community/partnerships/tides-welcomes-black-lives-matter/
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 07:44:35 PM by Pat »

jeff37923

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #174 on: September 05, 2020, 11:24:12 PM »

Do some more digging, it looks like the umbrella Black Lives Matter organization, called the Black Lives Matter Global Network (the "Global" is a recent addition), is a corporation, not a charity.


Way ahead of you. From over three months ago.


Quote from: jeff37923, DriveThruRPG Supporting BLM[font=verdana
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2020, 08:28:26 AM »][/font]

I'm pretty concerned where and how my money is being spent when I donate it. It isn't just Black Lives Matter, it is Black Lives Matter Foundation Incorporated. They are a business, but they are not a non-profit 501(3)c. They are also only six years old. So how is money that is donated to them spent? What percentage is used for overhead? How much gets to the people they are trying to help?

You and estar can use your IP and spend your money however you like. My take on this is that if you really want to help out blacks in America,  then your donations of money might be better spent on the NAACP or the UNCF although neither is topical in the media right now.[/quote]

« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 11:26:24 PM by jeff37923 »

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #175 on: September 08, 2020, 01:52:03 PM »
Zuckerberg apparently thinks the media "should work to convince the American public there is nothing illegitimate, strange, or suspect about the results [of the] upcoming presidential election".
https://nationalfile.com/zuckerberg-election-may-take-weeks-and-cause-civil-unrest-until-media-creates-consensus-on-next-president/

It's not the job of the media to decide what happens before it happens and to suppress any opposing views. That's the job of the Ministry of Truth.

Steven Mitchell

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #176 on: September 08, 2020, 02:48:07 PM »
Zuckerberg apparently thinks the media "should work to convince the American public there is nothing illegitimate, strange, or suspect about the results [of the] upcoming presidential election".
https://nationalfile.com/zuckerberg-election-may-take-weeks-and-cause-civil-unrest-until-media-creates-consensus-on-next-president/

It's not the job of the media to decide what happens before it happens and to suppress any opposing views. That's the job of the Ministry of Truth.
Nice one.  Glad I wasn't drinking, or you'd owe me a new keyboard. :)

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #177 on: September 08, 2020, 07:49:56 PM »
Nice one.  Glad I wasn't drinking, or you'd owe me a new keyboard. :)
I used to think Aldous Huxley had predicted the future better, but it's becoming easier and easier to quote Orwell.

Ghostmaker

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #178 on: September 09, 2020, 08:13:23 AM »
Nice one.  Glad I wasn't drinking, or you'd owe me a new keyboard. :)
I used to think Aldous Huxley had predicted the future better, but it's becoming easier and easier to quote Orwell.
At this rate, it's the two of them keeping score while sitting on a park bench in the afterlife while sharing a bottle of good booze.

Garry G

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #179 on: September 09, 2020, 10:37:21 AM »
“Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it.”
[/size][/color]
[/size]I'm not sure Orwell would be a valued member of this community. [/color]
I'm still having a go at Keeping Cthulhu