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Author Topic: 2020 Election Commentary  (Read 57030 times)

Spinachcat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1290 on: November 25, 2020, 12:01:35 am »
And when there is no civil war, and no separation, and it's just an ordinary Biden presidency will you admit you were wrong?

Absolutely!

Maybe Biden will be the most amazing President ever and his "very progressive agenda" (his words) will sprinkle the world with rainbows and unicorns!

I admit that it is VERY possible (and according to my friends, very probable) that the outcome of America's fall into socialism, communism and destruction is total obedience by the nation in our own suicide.

Based on the past 50 years of TOTAL FAILURE to push back in the culture war, the leftists have very good reason to believe "the right" will do nothing in the future as well and simply kvetch on Parler, grind their teeth watching NewsMax or TrumpNews, wave flags at rallies and stockpile guns and ammo they never will shoot.

It is VERY possible "the right" will go back to voting for spineless Republicans and continue to gobble down their useless promises to "fight for something in the future" and then watch as more and more of American values, traditions and history are lost forever.

Unless "the right" gets off its ass, America dies. How her death happens is yet to be determined. I fully accept the fact that "the right" might lay down - and 2020 is a good indicator of that - but the history of humanity shows that economic strife + cultural divide = violence & separation. Of course, who knows if that's a 4 year or a 14 year or 40 year timetable.

If you ask me to bet, even I'd bet money on your kind killing America long before my kind stands up and stops you.

HappyDaze

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1291 on: November 25, 2020, 12:05:41 am »
And when there is no civil war, and no separation, and it's just an ordinary Biden presidency will you admit you were wrong?

Absolutely!

Maybe Biden will be the most amazing President ever and his "very progressive agenda" (his words) will sprinkle the world with rainbows and unicorns!

I admit that it is VERY possible (and according to my friends, very probable) that the outcome of America's fall into socialism, communism and destruction is total obedience by the nation in our own suicide.

Based on the past 50 years of TOTAL FAILURE to push back in the culture war, the leftists have very good reason to believe "the right" will do nothing in the future as well and simply kvetch on Parler, grind their teeth watching NewsMax or TrumpNews, wave flags at rallies and stockpile guns and ammo they never will shoot.

It is VERY possible "the right" will go back to voting for spineless Republicans and continue to gobble down their useless promises to "fight for something in the future" and then watch as more and more of American values, traditions and history are lost forever.

Unless "the right" gets off its ass, America dies. How her death happens is yet to be determined. I fully accept the fact that "the right" might lay down - and 2020 is a good indicator of that - but the history of humanity shows that economic strife + cultural divide = violence & separation. Of course, who knows if that's a 4 year or a 14 year or 40 year timetable.

If you ask me to bet, even I'd bet money on your kind killing America long before my kind stands up and stops you.
America is evolving, and that means change, not death. Unless you and yours are evolutionary dead ends...which makes a lot of sense. Run from the people of the future, caveman.

Spinachcat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1292 on: November 25, 2020, 12:13:43 am »
America is evolving, and that means change, not death.

Russia "evolved" so much in 1917.
Castro brought such "change" to Cuba.
Who do you worship more, Mao or the Khmer Rouge?

Communism definitely brings change AND death. Lots and lots of death.

HappyDaze

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1293 on: November 25, 2020, 12:16:15 am »
America is evolving, and that means change, not death.

Russia "evolved" so much in 1917.
Castro brought such "change" to Cuba.
Who do you worship more, Mao or the Khmer Rouge?

Communism definitely brings change AND death. Lots and lots of death.
I agree that not all change is good, but I don't believe all change is bad either.

Anyway, I'll be back to insult you again tomorrow. For now, I need to grab a few hours of sleep before a busy day.

Goodnight, bitch.

SHARK

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1294 on: November 25, 2020, 03:00:44 am »
And when there is no civil war, and no separation, and it's just an ordinary Biden presidency will you admit you were wrong?

Absolutely!

Maybe Biden will be the most amazing President ever and his "very progressive agenda" (his words) will sprinkle the world with rainbows and unicorns!

I admit that it is VERY possible (and according to my friends, very probable) that the outcome of America's fall into socialism, communism and destruction is total obedience by the nation in our own suicide.

Based on the past 50 years of TOTAL FAILURE to push back in the culture war, the leftists have very good reason to believe "the right" will do nothing in the future as well and simply kvetch on Parler, grind their teeth watching NewsMax or TrumpNews, wave flags at rallies and stockpile guns and ammo they never will shoot.

It is VERY possible "the right" will go back to voting for spineless Republicans and continue to gobble down their useless promises to "fight for something in the future" and then watch as more and more of American values, traditions and history are lost forever.

Unless "the right" gets off its ass, America dies. How her death happens is yet to be determined. I fully accept the fact that "the right" might lay down - and 2020 is a good indicator of that - but the history of humanity shows that economic strife + cultural divide = violence & separation. Of course, who knows if that's a 4 year or a 14 year or 40 year timetable.

If you ask me to bet, even I'd bet money on your kind killing America long before my kind stands up and stops you.

Greetings!

This is Civil War in the Ukraine--between Ukraine and the regions of Lugansk and Donbas. Interestingly, the United States and Nato sponsored a "Colour Revolution" in Kiev, which proceeded to install a president that was very cooperative with allowing Nato forces to move into Ukraine, and also to enmesh Ukraine into the EU. We all know what guardians of freedom and Democracy the EU is. The government in Kiev proceeded to institute policies that not everyone in the country agrees with--hence, a civil war has developed.

Live action presented here. The video is from early in the civil war, several years ago.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

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"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
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jhkim

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1295 on: November 25, 2020, 03:29:55 am »
Spinachcat - Do you have a link to something that shows the data along the method and its sources? I looked over a Redstate.com article earlier in this thread, which had a bunch of statistics but no explanation of its sources or methods.

I have seen numerous articles, but I do not have link with a master list. I will try to backtrack to the better articles that had the data presented - particularly the datadumps related to the sudden spikes in votes on the morning of Nov 4th.

I do know Matt Braynard's name has shown up in several articles and this is his "final analysis" video with details from his Voter Integrity Project. It's a lengthy discussion (I don't enjoy podcasts) and I am waiting for his white paper promised next week.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH9ihoLi1NA&feature=emb_logo

Hopefully, the white paper will link to the raw data so other people can examine his findings and verify his results. For any voter integrity to be valuable long term, we need the raw data publicly available for multiple researchers to confirm, deny or question the analysis.

Thanks, Spinachcat. I haven't watched the whole video, but I've watched a few chunks. I think it will be much better if it comes out as a white paper when they can actually present sources and methodology. Though, his conclusion is very different than many people here. From 34:15 in his video, in his conclusion section, what he says is:

Quote from: Matt Braynard
(Re: Biden) He may have won; he may not have won. Trump may have lost. Trump may have been re-elected. We just can't know, because of how bad this election system has operated. Because of all the problems it has allowed that I have brought to your attention.

I haven't watched the whole thing, but I agree with him in at least some parts regarding the election process. We really could use a more general election reform process. But a lot of people here are saying there is proof that the election was stolen from Trump by massive fraud by the Democrats -- and his conclusion isn't making any such claim. If the white paper is coming out next week, I would prefer to wait and read that.

Mistwell

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1296 on: November 25, 2020, 11:04:03 am »
And when there is no civil war, and no separation, and it's just an ordinary Biden presidency will you admit you were wrong?

Absolutely!

Maybe Biden will be the most amazing President ever and his "very progressive agenda" (his words) will sprinkle the world with rainbows and unicorns!

Oh please we both know that isn't happening. With a Republican Senate, and a bare majority in the House with enough fearful moderate Democratic House members fearing the midterms if they are perceived to be progressive, we're talking a deadlocked Congress.

Their only prayer of accomplishing something would be to pass the bill previously proposed to reinstate earmarks. Once earmarks are reinstated, then they can start making back room deals again, and have a chance at actually passing a bill. Things like "You vote to give bullet train money to California, and we will vote to give defense contracts to Texas" type deals were the backbone of how most things got done when we were younger.

This is how industry was originally spread across America. It's how our aerospace industry at one time was the best in the world. It's how our roads were, at one time, the best in the world. It's how our dams, our electrical system, our waterways, were all once the best in the world. It's how we got to the moon, and built track homes to make the suburbs, advanced architecture, and medicine. With backroom deals made in smoke filled rooms by overly fed and overly ego'ed good old boys trying to screw each other in negotiations.

And none of this lends itself to progressive agendas or culture wars. The progressives, more than any other group, lost this last election. They gained a couple of seats, but lost the larger war with those state legislature and congressional results. We've entered an era where cutting deals with people who disagree with you is the only way to accomplish anything, and that is the last thing the progressives wanted. An outright loss would have been better for them, from a messaging standpoint, than what happened. At least then they could argue they are the underdog fighting against the evil machine. But no, they appear to be on the winning side, but all their potential allies must instead turn to their enemies now. So they have no position to appeal from, aside from attacking their own Democrats. Which won't work.

This is what I mean by an ordinary Presidency. I think it is highly likely to be the kind of Presidency we were most used to when young. When it honestly didn't matter too much who was President, because most of the real decisions were not being made at the top anyway, and the nation had the benefit of a slightly corrupt but fairly well controlled and rational negotiating Congress cutting deals to spread the wealth across the nation. Because they had too, in order to keep their jobs and get rich themselves.

Ghostmaker

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1297 on: November 25, 2020, 11:27:56 am »
<hilarious naivete snipped>
I just saw Dianne Feinstein will no longer be on the Judiciary Committee. Well, she IS 87... but there's also the small matter of not being sufficiently aggressive and mean to dirty prole Republicans.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/23/dianne-feinstein-step-down-senate-judiciary-439836

Money quote:

"This was a necessary step if Democrats are ever going to meaningfully confront the damage Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell have done to the federal judiciary," said Brian Fallon, executive director of Demand Justice. "Going forward, Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee must be led by someone who will not wishfully cling to a bygone era of civility and decorum that Republicans abandoned long ago."

Civility? Decorum? Holy shit, did this guy see the same Kavanaugh hearings I did? That was a fucking circus, complete with elephants and clowns and trapeze acts.

But no, evidently daffy ol' Dianne (she is NOT my favorite person due to her championing of anti-2A laws and bills) was insufficiently woke to please the radicals. Dick 'It's my name!' Durbin, and Whackjob Whitehorse will be vying for her seat. Wonderful.

Yeah, this is gonna be a fun couple years.

rawma

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1298 on: November 25, 2020, 12:18:35 pm »
For 4 years all people heard was: "ELECTION WAS RIGGED!!!", "TRUMP IS A FRAUD!!!", "HIS SUPPORTERS MUST BE DEALT WITH!", "BURN DOWN AMERICA!!! NO MORE LAW AND ORDER!! DESTROY!".

You are obviously only listening to right wingers misrepresenting what has been said (or cherry picking some extremists with no influence).

I've heard that the Trump campaign sought and welcomed help from the Russians in 2016, but were apparently too incompetent to conspire toward this. (And the Senate Intelligence committee confirms this, and they are mostly Republican Senators who have been quite slow to state publicly that Trump lost in 2020, and were all in (except Romney) when Trump got impeached for trying to get Ukraine to manufacture dirt on Joe Biden.)

I've heard that Trump is dishonest - 20,00 lies - but not that he's a fraud; he pretty much has no filter, and his narcissism probably drives him to believe his own lies. That Trump could not rise to a minimal level of competence as president is on him.

"Deal" with Trump supporters? All I heard was how those who oppose Trump have to turn out to vote in huge numbers (the electoral college at present probably means that a Democrat has to win the popular vote by more than 3% to have better than even chances of winning the presidency). Trump called for voter intimidation at the polls. I support Joe Biden's call for the country to come together, just as I supported Hillary Clinton's similar call in her concession speech a day after the 2016 election.

Most of the violence in the recent protests has been fomented either by the boogalooers and their ilk, or by federal intervention sent in against the wishes of mayors and governors. And murderers like Kyle Rittenhouse are heroes to the right.

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1299 on: November 25, 2020, 01:26:56 pm »
Oh please we both know that isn't happening. With a Republican Senate, and a bare majority in the House with enough fearful moderate Democratic House members fearing the midterms if they are perceived to be progressive, we're talking a deadlocked Congress.

Their only prayer of accomplishing something would be to pass the bill previously proposed to reinstate earmarks. Once earmarks are reinstated, then they can start making back room deals again, and have a chance at actually passing a bill. Things like "You vote to give bullet train money to California, and we will vote to give defense contracts to Texas" type deals were the backbone of how most things got done when we were younger.

This is how industry was originally spread across America. It's how our aerospace industry at one time was the best in the world. It's how our roads were, at one time, the best in the world. It's how our dams, our electrical system, our waterways, were all once the best in the world. It's how we got to the moon, and built track homes to make the suburbs, advanced architecture, and medicine. With backroom deals made in smoke filled rooms by overly fed and overly ego'ed good old boys trying to screw each other in negotiations.
Except that's not true. Industry spread across America because of entrepreneurs, not pork. For infrastructure, look up the history of private roads in the 19th century. The US had a huge network of toll roads, and a huge network of free roads that were funded local businesses, who benefited from the additional commerce. While the resultant roads were shared public goods, or classic positive externalities, and thus ripe for government intervention according to Pigouvian thinking, the market still created innovative ways for key beneficiaries to share the costs, and thus created them despite the theorizing. Eisenhower did create a national standard and turned the roads into a more consistent network, but it's worth remembering he did it primarily to facilitate troop transport in the case of an invasion, not for commercial or private use. Aerospace is not commercially viable on its own, but contracting out public services to private companies, from Boeing to Space X, is how the industry has always operated.

The government can't take credit for everything good, since most of the real goods were created by private hands. The bigger concern is handcuffing the private sector with taxes and excess regulation. That's why gridlock is good, because it at least lets the private sector wriggle a little bit in their restraints.

Pat

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1300 on: November 25, 2020, 01:35:19 pm »
<hilarious naivete snipped>
I just saw Dianne Feinstein will no longer be on the Judiciary Committee. Well, she IS 87... but there's also the small matter of not being sufficiently aggressive and mean to dirty prole Republicans.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/23/dianne-feinstein-step-down-senate-judiciary-439836

Money quote:

"This was a necessary step if Democrats are ever going to meaningfully confront the damage Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell have done to the federal judiciary," said Brian Fallon, executive director of Demand Justice. "Going forward, Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee must be led by someone who will not wishfully cling to a bygone era of civility and decorum that Republicans abandoned long ago."

Civility? Decorum? Holy shit, did this guy see the same Kavanaugh hearings I did? That was a fucking circus, complete with elephants and clowns and trapeze acts.

But no, evidently daffy ol' Dianne (she is NOT my favorite person due to her championing of anti-2A laws and bills) was insufficiently woke to please the radicals. Dick 'It's my name!' Durbin, and Whackjob Whitehorse will be vying for her seat. Wonderful.

Yeah, this is gonna be a fun couple years.
That's going to come back and bite them. This election was clearly a repudiation of the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. But the progressives still control the narrative in social media, and many of the levers of power, and they're using it to purge moderates (though Feinstein is only a moderate by current standards), or force them to take more extreme positions (Biden's various statements pandering to the AOC crowd, for instance). Which is exactly what the voters don't want. The 2022 midterms are likely to be a blue rout.

Shasarak

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1301 on: November 25, 2020, 01:51:33 pm »
America is evolving, and that means change, not death.

Russia "evolved" so much in 1917.
Castro brought such "change" to Cuba.
Who do you worship more, Mao or the Khmer Rouge?

Communism definitely brings change AND death. Lots and lots of death.

Come on Spinach Cat, Happy Daze will have you know the people who died were evolutionary dead ends so therefore no great loss,   ::)
"There can be no middle ground with bigots. Bigots want to deny the rights and livelihood of people different from them. They want them to cease existing, either by going underground or by murdering them. There is no "let's meet in the middle" with that. To suggest there can be is ignorance" RPGNet

Mistwell

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1302 on: November 25, 2020, 03:25:42 pm »
Oh please we both know that isn't happening. With a Republican Senate, and a bare majority in the House with enough fearful moderate Democratic House members fearing the midterms if they are perceived to be progressive, we're talking a deadlocked Congress.

Their only prayer of accomplishing something would be to pass the bill previously proposed to reinstate earmarks. Once earmarks are reinstated, then they can start making back room deals again, and have a chance at actually passing a bill. Things like "You vote to give bullet train money to California, and we will vote to give defense contracts to Texas" type deals were the backbone of how most things got done when we were younger.

This is how industry was originally spread across America. It's how our aerospace industry at one time was the best in the world. It's how our roads were, at one time, the best in the world. It's how our dams, our electrical system, our waterways, were all once the best in the world. It's how we got to the moon, and built track homes to make the suburbs, advanced architecture, and medicine. With backroom deals made in smoke filled rooms by overly fed and overly ego'ed good old boys trying to screw each other in negotiations.
Except that's not true. Industry spread across America because of entrepreneurs, not pork.

You are naive and misinformed.

Steel, coal, aerospace, construction machinery and contracts, they all came from Government contracts starting in the 30s which only grew through the 50s and 60s.

The government is not "taking credit for everything good" as a lot of this was private companies receiving Government contracts. But pork spending drove a huge amount of this growth.

Kiero

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1303 on: November 25, 2020, 04:20:18 pm »
I have to say, the revelations from the Pennsylvania case are hilarious. Almost 600,000 postal votes injected into the process in the small hours of the morning, 572,000 for Biden, 3,200 for Trump.

Nothing suspicious there at all. Nope, nothing to see here, move along.
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SHARK

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Re: 2020 Election Commentary
« Reply #1304 on: November 25, 2020, 04:34:19 pm »
Greetings!

This election has been so full of fraud and corruption. Full investigations and audits need to be done, and all of these corrupt pollsters, workers, election officials, and slimy politicians need to fucking pay.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
« Last Edit: November 25, 2020, 04:39:05 pm by SHARK »
"It is the Marine Corps that will strip away the façade so easily confused with self. It is the Corps that will offer the pain needed to buy the truth. And at last, each will own the privilege of looking inside himself  to discover what truly resides there. Comfort is an illusion. A false security bred from familiar things and familiar ways. It narrows the mind. Weakens the body. And robs the soul of spirit and determination. Comfort is neither welcome nor tolerated here."

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"Let Death and Fire Be Their Portion!"
"Delenda Est Parthia!"