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Author Topic: "Zelazny Estate"  (Read 4501 times)

darkwolfe

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"Zelazny Estate"
« on: August 20, 2009, 10:15:46 PM »
For years, I've seen this ambiguous term everywhere but I can't figure out what it means or whom it applies to. "The Zelazny estate won't let us do this" or "the Zelazny estate blocked my work" or "the Zelazny estate endorses the new Amber novels" (Wha?!!!). Who the hell is this "Zelazny estate?" Is it Zelazny's son? His ex-wife? A bunch of (evil) lawyers who think they're protecting the copyrights of Zelazny? Can't be Jane Lindskold...can it? Please, someone enlighten and humor me.

Jason D

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"Zelazny Estate"
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2009, 11:37:55 PM »
The Zelazny Estate, as I understand it, is essentially Roger's three children and his ex-wife. I don't think he modified his will before his death to include Jane.

I'm sure they have a lawyer, and I'd imagine that Roger's former agent is likely involved in some fashion.

RPGPundit

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"Zelazny Estate"
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2009, 01:38:27 AM »
From how I always understood it, the one that calls the shots is Zelazny's ex-wife, the one who despised him.

She's certainly done a fine job of avenging herself by butchering his legacy.

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Jason D

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"Zelazny Estate"
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2009, 01:47:06 PM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;322666
From how I always understood it, the one that calls the shots is Zelazny's ex-wife, the one who despised him.

She's certainly done a fine job of avenging herself by butchering his legacy.
I suppose one might uncharitably look at it like that.

Another way might be that Roger left his wife and three children for a younger woman, and that when he died and left her in charge of his estate, she had to make a difficult choice regarding his wishes on one aspect of his creative output vs. providing for herself and her family.

Everything I've heard is that Roger was a decent and loving father to his kids... and I suspect that if in life he'd been forced between compromising his literary legacy vs. providing for them, he would have chosen on the side of family.

It's much easier to hold onto principles when you aren't responsible for the lives of others.

Jason D

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"Zelazny Estate"
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2009, 01:58:51 PM »
I should also mention that whatever the Zelazny Estate has done, they certainly authorized and have participated in The Zelazny Project, which I for one am thankful for.

Remember that in his lifetime, Roger authorized and participated to some degree in The Illustrated Guide to Castle Amber, The Black Road War, Seven No-Trump, and The Complete Amber Sourcebook, so it's not as if he viewed his world as completely sacrosanct from outside (and inferior) contributions.

kingtheseus

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"Zelazny Estate"
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2009, 10:30:51 PM »
Quote from: jdurall;322783
Another way might be that Roger left his wife and three children for a younger woman, and that when he died and left her in charge of his estate, she had to make a difficult choice regarding his wishes on one aspect of his creative output vs. providing for herself and her family.


I'll admit I only have very second-hand information on this, and your connections might have you much better informed.  I suspect, though, you are way overstating the case.

When Dawn of Amber was published in 2002, the eldest child,  Devin would have been 31, and the youngest, Shannon would have been 23.  It's not like Zelazny's wife was trying to raise a family of three as a single mother.

I've heard it strongly implied from several second-hand sources that if Zelazny had updated his will and placed the estate in Devin's name, then the prequels would never have been authorised.

Jason D

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"Zelazny Estate"
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2009, 11:10:54 PM »
Quote from: kingtheseus;323648
I've heard it strongly implied from several second-hand sources that if Zelazny had updated his will and placed the estate in Devin's name, then the prequels would never have been authorised.

Let me put it this way... I have zero interest in the prequel novels. Ultimately, they don't exist as far as my life goes. I will never have to read them, and I'll never use anything from them in an ADRPG game, whether as a GM, a player, or a developer should the pen-and-paper game make a comeback with any involvement from me.

I think Roger had it in his power to make clear his wishes about sequels in a legal sense, but he didn't. I don't really fault his wife for authorizing them, but I certainly wouldn't have written them, knowing his wishes on the matter.

Since I haven't read them, I can't be the judge, but I'm having a hard time imagining that they could be shittier than the visual guide, the choose-your-own-adventure books, or the comic adaptation, and they are likely to be far better than any Sci-Fi Network adaptation of the series was liable to be.

And sure, the kids were old enough to take care of themselves. That doesn't need they may not have needed money. I have no idea what financial state Roger's ex-wife was in... but I do know enough about how much authors make to imagine that she likely wasn't rolling in dough after decades of marriage.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 11:14:48 PM by Jason D »

darkwolfe

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"Zelazny Estate"
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2009, 12:15:14 AM »
Quote from: jdurall;323658
Since I haven't read them, I can't be the judge, but I'm having a hard time imagining that they could be shittier than the visual guide, the choose-your-own-adventure books, or the comic adaptation, and they are likely to be far better than any Sci-Fi Network adaptation of the series was liable to be.


Wow. For some reason that statement lite a fire under my butt. lol! Before you make a blind statement like that, you really need to read those books. Okay, visual guide was crap but at least it was somewhat amusing to read and look at. Seriously. How many Amber gamers and fans have that book or leafed through the pages and found something that perked their imagination? The comic adaptation I felt wasn't as bad as what some people might think. The story stayed pretty consistent with the novels but the artwork wasn't as great as it could have been. If memory serves me correctly, those comics were made by Amber role-player. I remember meeting them at one of the many Ambercons I went to. That gives the comics some points. But I guess art is in the eye of the beholder. As for any Sci-Fi Channel movie adaptation being worse than the "prequels".... Let's just say I would rather watch "Chupacabra" 10x over than forced to read the Amber "prequels" again. Let's remember that not everything Sci-fi makes it crap. Farscape anyone? Oh how about Eureka? Better yet, any fans of Battlestar Galactica? If Syfy wants to make something good, they can do it.

Believe it. Those "prequels" were a lot worse than all those things you've mentioned. They were badly written, with a horrible plot and very poor characterization. As I read them, I wondered if the author even read the Amber Chronicles. I actually had a very hard time reading those books, not because the author "betrayed" Zelazny's wishes, but because they were that bad. I don't know who authorized those books, be it his ex-wife or old publishers, but at least they could have chosen a half way decent writer who understood and loved the Amber Chronicles. Oh wait. Those writers would never have written an Amber novel because they would have known Zelazny's wishes and respect the man.

I'm not flaming you or anything. I just think your statement is funny and way out there. I had to say something. lol.

jibbajibba

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"Zelazny Estate"
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2009, 04:36:05 AM »
Quote from: darkwolfe;323662

Believe it. Those "prequels" were a lot worse than all those things you've mentioned. They were badly written, with a horrible plot and very poor characterization. As I read them, I wondered if the author even read the Amber Chronicles. I actually had a very hard time reading those books, not because the author "betrayed" Zelazny's wishes, but because they were that bad.
Quote


Have to agree and I think the Visual Guide was dire. I read the first Prequel novel and it was amongst the worst books I have ever read (I i am including the Da Vinci Code in here too).
However whilst the Black Road War isn't great 7 no Trump is really quite good and if you ever struggle to get a voice for Random I recommend it.
Oh and you missed outthe illustrated Roger Zelazny from '78 (ish) which whilst only mentioning Amber briefly does have a set of trumps that I used in games before ADRPG was around. It also have a very nice ShadowJack prequel penned by Zelazny himself but it comic format ..... now Jack of Shadows there is a novel just looking for a game adaptation.
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Jason D

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"Zelazny Estate"
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2009, 08:37:09 AM »
Quote from: darkwolfe;323662
Wow. For some reason that statement lite a fire under my butt. lol! Before you make a blind statement like that, you really need to read those books.

Let me clarify... I haven't read the prequels.

I have read (and own copies of) the Visual Guide, the Sourcebook, Seven No-Trump, Black Road War, the comics, all Amberzines, the complete run of fanzines such as Trump Call, Hellrider, and another couple whose names escape me, and The Illustrated Roger Zelazny. I've got just about everything with RZ's name on it other than his poetry, and when I saw one in a bookstore I just didn't feel like paying $125 for a slim volume of poetry, even if it was signed.

So it's not like I'm a purist or anything. I knew RZ's wishes, and I also knew how fundamentally boring I find prequels and tweenquels, so I didn't pick 'em up other than to flip through one in a store, read a few pages and wince at the uninspired names and relatively dull prose.

Jason D

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"Zelazny Estate"
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2009, 08:41:59 AM »
Quote from: jibbajibba;323693
It also have a very nice ShadowJack prequel penned by Zelazny himself but it comic format ..... now Jack of Shadows there is a novel just looking for a game adaptation.


Of Zelazny's works, Jack of Shadows is, in my opinion, the most suitable for a major motion picture adaptation.

I talked with Erick about doing a game of Roadmarks, but time is the devourer of idle plans and it never came about.

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"Zelazny Estate"
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2009, 10:28:14 AM »
Quote from: jdurall;323714
Of Zelazny's works, Jack of Shadows is, in my opinion, the most suitable for a major motion picture adaptation.

I talked with Erick about doing a game of Roadmarks, but time is the devourer of idle plans and it never came about.


I have a soft spot for DonnerJack as well and thing that could be a freakish specal effects rich 3d Animated Avatar styley kind of a film.

But a ShadowJack game might be a project worth looking at. It's got all the elements of a  good RPG, (mystery, unique pcs with special powers, machiavelian politics, excuse for lots of combat, clashes of cultures...) and one of the coolest names of any character ever penned, I mean Jack of Shadows on ascle of 1-10 its a 12.3 :)
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Jason D

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"Zelazny Estate"
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2009, 03:14:44 PM »
Another RZ story that would be excellent for game development is 'Mana from Heaven', though at times it reads like a trial run for Merlin's Chronicles.

finarvyn

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"Zelazny Estate"
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2009, 10:26:41 PM »
I think that both Shadowjack and Dilvish, the Damned are characters who I would love to see more in a gaming setting or in a movie. Both have the same style of cynical wit as Corwin, and both take place in interesting settings.

I also love A Dark Travelling, but it really feels like "Amber, Jr." to me.
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