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Author Topic: What makes the ADRP rulebook so cool  (Read 2124 times)

Otha

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What makes the ADRP rulebook so cool
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2006, 06:22:53 AM »
If you're not going to make changes there's not much point in a new edition.

Can you name any game that went into a second edition without major changes to the system?

Dungeons and Dragons didn't.

Shadowrun didn't.

GURPS didn't.

Vampire didn't.

Traveller didn't.... many times.

There were lots of grognards who opposed the changes that came with new editions to all these games.  Lots of them kept playing the old version after the new one came out... and that's a good thing.

It's not like the old version suddenly can't be played anymore after the new one comes out.  It remains an option.  Sometimes (such as in the case of Traveller) the old version stays popular alongside newer versions.

So why the opposition to changing anything?
 

finarvyn

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What makes the ADRP rulebook so cool
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2006, 08:35:44 AM »
Quote from: Otha
If you're not going to make changes there's not much point in a new edition.

Can you name any game that went into a second edition without major changes to the system? Dungeons and Dragons didn't.?

Part of the reason to make a new edition is to blend and reorganize. When Erick wrote ADRP he hadn't put together Shadow Knight yet. Also, Zelazny hadn't written his last 5 short stories. All of this material could be brought into a 2E game.

And a 2E might bring an out of print game back into print!

Actually, D&D is very similar in most of its incarnations -- brown book OD&D, Holmes Basic, Mentzer and Modlvay versions of B/X, 1E AD&D, and 2E AD&D are all quite compatible with one another. Those changes were in terms of orgainzation, addition of material, and other minor things. From 1974 until 1999 the game was essentially the same; it wasn't until the new 3E edition in 2000 that major changes occured to the core mechanic.

Also, Tunnels & Trolls is a game which is in 7th edition, yet the first six editions of T&T were all very much the same. Again, minor tweaks but no complete overhaul.

GURPS underwent several versions and the basic system remained unchanged. Again, I'm not counting little stuff -- only major system overhaul.

So why throw out ADRP and replace it with a new game? If you want to make two games (ADRP Classic and ADRP Nobilis, for example) go for it. Just don't take away what we like.
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The Yann Waters

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What makes the ADRP rulebook so cool
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2006, 08:41:00 AM »
Quote from: Otha
Can you name any game that went into a second edition without major changes to the system?
Call of Cthulhu? Its so-called "new editions" tend to be more like reprints.
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What makes the ADRP rulebook so cool
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2006, 12:18:08 PM »
People do new editions for various reasons.

In this case, because the gamebook is now out of print, and new material hasn't been released in years, and the old book was a little disorganized, and you could stuff a bunch of new stuff in there now, new cool stuff like optional rules and such.

But the system itself is sound, and it seems stupid to throw away a system that is loved by a huge group of fans, that is tested and true and has worked for 20 years now, in favour of questionable claptrap from whatever idiotic pretentious game is the flavour of the month because either the idiots at rpg.net or Ron "Kool aid" Edwards said so.

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JongWK

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What makes the ADRP rulebook so cool
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2006, 12:54:11 PM »
Quote from: Otha

Shadowrun didn't.


Way to mix apples and oranges.
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alexandro

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What makes the ADRP rulebook so cool
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2006, 05:11:03 PM »
I really like the concept of the way the PCs deal with problems in the game.

In other games, when your PC comes across a challenge or obstacle, he has very limited options in dealing with it.
In Amber you can really knock yourself out, trying crazy things- there is never really a "no go" situation because of what the PCs are capable of.
Amber really rewards creativity over game stats.
It is the only game, where the players are really "empowered" (forgive the ugly forgesque), without making it some shared-narration thingie.

This is also my greatest gripe with the GM section and examples in the book, since they come across in such a way, that it seems to be the job of the GM to be the antagonist making life as difficult as possible for the players, instead of being (like Pundit said) facilitator, making sure everyone is having fun...also the examples nearly always show the PCs working together and never against each other. Advice how to run rivalries, without the game degenerating in a lot of note-pushing and solo-session play, would be nice.
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What makes the ADRP rulebook so cool
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2006, 05:47:12 PM »
Quote from: alexandro
I really like the concept of the way the PCs deal with problems in the game.

In other games, when your PC comes across a challenge or obstacle, he has very limited options in dealing with it.
In Amber you can really knock yourself out, trying crazy things- there is never really a "no go" situation because of what the PCs are capable of.
Amber really rewards creativity over game stats.
It is the only game, where the players are really "empowered" (forgive the ugly forgesque), without making it some shared-narration thingie.


Very good point!

Quote

This is also my greatest gripe with the GM section and examples in the book, since they come across in such a way, that it seems to be the job of the GM to be the antagonist making life as difficult as possible for the players, instead of being (like Pundit said) facilitator, making sure everyone is having fun...also the examples nearly always show the PCs working together and never against each other. Advice how to run rivalries, without the game degenerating in a lot of note-pushing and solo-session play, would be nice.


I disagree with you completely about the GM advice; I think its fine, since a GM has to figure out how to run ALL the NPCs in a machiavellian way, and make the PCs go through the kind of hell that only Amberites can give, without just beating up or killing the PCs.
However, I strongly AGREE that more advice about managing rivalries between PCs is a good idea, and something there could be more of.
That said, note pushing and solitary play are two hallmarks of Amber that are a big part of the fun, in my book.  The advice should be about how to make these things go smoothly, rather than how to eliminate them.

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finarvyn

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What makes the ADRP rulebook so cool
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2006, 08:12:35 PM »
Pundit -- so funny to see you disagree with Alexandro, who thought he was trying to agree with you. :pundit:

Drat. I should learn just to shut up. ;)
Marv / Finarvyn
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