Transfer quality

[yrtalien]

One of my players is talking about making two artifacts for his character.

The first is a sword that has a Psychic Quality: Sensitivity to Danger.

The second is a pendant that protects him from harm Invulnerable to all Conventional Weapons

I made my player pay for a transfer of quality for each of the artifacts but now I'm wondering if he needed to for the sword...  My reasoning is that unless he gives it the ability to move or speak it has no way of alerting him to the danger it senses (Is uppose it could change color or glow warm or something like that.... )  Am I potentially stealing 5 points from my player?

Thanks

[scottishstorm]

Psychic quality can be transferred, but doesn't really need to be. Here's how it works.  Psychic quality is a form of awareness, if not strictly intelligence.  If the sensitive-to-danger sword senses danger, it will alert its "master" of this danger.  Note, though, that there's a range on this.  The sword cannot alert the character is separated by a great distance and/or by shadows.  There may also be factors in place that prevent either the sensing danger aspect or the communication of this.  The DRPG has at least one example where someone;s 'sensitive to danger' item (the cat) fails to deliver as expected.

As for "Invulnerable to all Conventional Weapons," this needs transfer.  Though, you may want to talk to the player about it before they pick such an item.  There will always be way around this sort of thing.  "Invulnerable to all Conventional Weapons" would hardly make the character immune to assassination attempts.  Most clever enemies will have a number of  work-arounds for this sort of quality transfer.  Really, if it were as good as it seems, why don't all the elders have an item to make themselves Invulnerable to all Conventional Weapons?

There are several threads on items, and specifically item transfers.  I think you'll find it a point of contention here, especially with GMs.

[scottishstorm]

Some things to consider, regarding items:

1) What is the item's power source?  
   Keep in mind that the three major powers are Pattern, Logrus and Trump.  None of these work everywhere and at all times.  All have some very specific counters.  The lest expensive basic form of each is 40 points.  So, an item is generally considered to be of an even lesser power (the DRPG suggests that new characters cannot have items of "real" power.  While this can be debatable, surely, no item should be of greater power than these three!).

2) How does it work?
   In the case of a ring conferring the quality of "invulnerable to all conventional weapons," is this a Magic Force field around the character? If so, methods of nullifying magic would also cancel the protection.   Magic also varies from shadow to shadow.  At the least, this ring would need to be 're-tuned' upon entering a new shadow.  Or, maybe the temp transfer makes the user's skin especially durable so it cannot be penetrated.  This will do nothing against blunt force trauma.  Getting hit by bullets will still HURT and might cause internal bleeding, depending upon the point of impact.  Strength-based melee attacks will be 100% effective.  Likely, so will magic effects such as the standard fireball spell.

3) Item battery
   If the ability-transfer is "always on" (such as someone who always wears his ring of "invulnerable to all conventional weapons," then what is fuelling the item?  No power source is an infinite resource (at least not in terms of character usage).  All powers in the DRPG have some measure of cost attached.  This can be via expenditure of one's Endurance attribute or from some sort of cause & effect trigger, or both.  All three major powers' defensive abilities are good examples here.  One must concentrate AND spend Endurance to put it to effect.  In the case of the quality-conferring ring, it may be more reasonable to have some sort of recharging factor key to the item and the item can use its ability a limited number of times before needing a recharge.

If it seems I'm picking on items, then perhaps I am. "Invulnerable to all conventional weapons," "Deadly Damage" and "Psychic Barrier" are three potential game-breakers (there are others as well).  Before allowing a character with items of these qualities, I'd really suggest putting them into perspective.  "Invulnerable to all conventional weapons"  plus "transfer quality," for instance is a mere combined nine points.   Consider this in perspective in relation to what it's defending against.

[gabriel_ss4u]

It just helps...
against the small stuff anyways.
Kinda like actually being Immortal when running about.
Invulnerable to all Conventional Weapons really doesn't give more than pause to elders. Players get creative.
I see nothing wrong with letting your players think themselves invulnerable.
:::wicked smile:::
It's nice to be in a story, get shot up on some shadow, then get back up and add to your legend.
"Then I pull out my 4pt or 8pt weapon and..."

EPIC, it should be epic...

[jibbajibba]

Lots to say no time to say it .

Suffice give them whatever they want.
Items are more Erick than Roger
Items can be considered a sink for PCs
There is no indication items need to be retuned to shadow
more later if time

[Trevelyan]

The first is a sword that has a Psychic Quality: Sensitivity to Danger.

The second is a pendant that protects him from harm Invulnerable to all Conventional Weapons

RAW the pendant needs the transfer quality but the sword doesn't, although the sword would probably need to be in hand, or at the very most in scabbard in order to alert the character to danger.

Personally, I think the item creation rules in ADRPG suck monumental arse, cause all manner of twiky arguments as people try to abuse them and have little basis in the books, but that's probably just me.

[Xenon]

i agree the sword doesn't really need transference, but would need to be held to work (hand on hilt, which can affect how others view your stance).

the amulet should work very well, for the points spent on it... but it is still quite limited in what it does. The first downside, is that anyone paying attention with special senses will notice the power of that amulet (be it magic or pattern lens thats looking). second, it only stops damage- not glue, beartraps, or quicksand. he still needs to breathe, and 'conventional' weapons cans till hurt him somewhat- he simply is at golden age superman invulnerability, where it takes a bursting tank shell to break his skin. the upside is a tank shell wont kill him in one hit like a normal person.

basically, he has the same advantage as a guy in 4-point full plate armor, but without the hassle of all that weight and he can wear any style of clothes he wants. he paid more, let him do more. but pulling off a necklace is a lot easier in combat than pulling off armor- if he fights someone with superior strength hes in trouble, and they can always strangle him with his own pendant. you can simply make sure the big bad has at least a 4-point weapon. give him more challenges that dont focus on being stabbed, but do give him enough chances to show off how awesome and stab-proof he is.

[scottishstorm]

yrtalien,

Here is a link for a partial powers and revised items system that you might like to look at.  I'm not in complete agreement with everything as it's laid out, but it is very reasonable and fair: written to keep exploitation at bay, but still leave all the possibilities in-tact.

I play Marcus here, if curious.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/By_Design/topic/287789/1/#new

[Par Rathorne]

ScottishStorm mentioned the thread and mentioned that he referred to my game's rule set in response to your question.  He thought I might like to reply so am....

I have both items equivalents in my game - the 'sensitive sword' and the 'amulet of protection +2'   In both cases, handing out the weapons should never be something you've not considered prior to the game starting.

It also heavily depends on the style of game you're offering.  A one-off does not have consequences so I'd let it slide, maybe even boost it for free.  A long term game does however need to be balanced.

In my game, for example, I wanted to be able to give out 'nifty' items but didn't want them to be as cheap as 'normal' so found/created a more expensive power/item power set, and most importantly, designed my game so that shadow folk were never going to be 'equal' to an Amberite or Chaosian.  That is a key point in my game as I wanted to keep the feel of superiority over shadow (so I could force Moral issues and the like on players and also allow them the 'EPIC' (as mentioned before) feel.  Taking this one step further, if your characters are epic, their powers and eq should be too.   And so should their enemies.

If you want to hand out powerful items, don't forget to balance the game.  If you start the game balanced, there is no chance at all for twinkage ;-)  And even if someone does try and power game, don't forget that you are the GM.  Your enemies can be more powerful.  And at last resort, Bend the rules!

Just a quick note on the item creation rules.  Don't let your players buy the 'top' level.  In my game, players with normal abilities can't get items with more than +4 costing abilities.   Elders can get +8 if they have the appropriate powers, and items like Greyswandir have +16.   If players want said +16 item, they can fight for it.  I have obviously seeded the NPC base with a set of 'nice to have' items (on both sides of the divide).

Anyway. I'm not the best GM by a long long way, so feel free to take my advice with a pinch of salt, but that's what I've learnt from experience.

[scottishstorm]

Hey Par,

Welcome to the forums!

[scottishstorm]

Anyway. I'm not the best GM by a long long way, so feel free to take my advice with a pinch of salt, but that's what I've learnt from experience.

I`m enjoying the game so far!  Thanks for having me!

[gabriel_ss4u]

Anyway. I'm not the best GM by a long long way, so feel free to take my advice with a pinch of salt, but that's what I've learnt from experience.

Welcome from Baltimore.

[Par Rathorne]

Thanks :-)

[yrtalien]

ScottishStorm mentioned the thread and mentioned that he referred to my game's rule set in response to your question.  He thought I might like to reply so am....

I have both items equivalents in my game - the 'sensitive sword' and the 'amulet of protection +2'   In both cases, handing out the weapons should never be something you've not considered prior to the game starting.

It also heavily depends on the style of game you're offering.  A one-off does not have consequences so I'd let it slide, maybe even boost it for free.  A long term game does however need to be balanced.

Thank you Par Rathorne for your response.  you have hit the nail on the head.  One of my players is a new teacher and will have the summer off and so our game will last 3 short months : ( Given that, I don't worry too much about power creep.  I want them to have fun and not be too concerned about points.  I'm probably going to advance them fairly quickly too.

I would normally be concerned about players starting with Advanced Powers and 4 point Qualities but right now all I'm really worried about is them having fun and having a good story for how them may have gotten these items

[gabriel_ss4u]

welcome too yrtalien!
always good to see more Amber players.