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Author Topic: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show  (Read 5077 times)

jhkim

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2023, 04:04:23 PM »
Quote from: jhkim
For example, there are reasons why Peter Jackson chose to ignore Tolkien's description that orcs look like ugly "Mongol types", but instead chose a different appearance.

I think mostly because he could hire only white or Maori kiwis for extras really :P

Quote from: jhkim
The appearance of Amber will be crucial to the films because it conveys how the viewers conceive of Amber as the supposed center of all reality.

Yes, and it should be terribly narrow and undiverse centre of reality, and if people in first two seasons gonna be shocked or enraged by it - before they get glimpse of Courts... so be it.

I think that shock value would distract from the point of the story.

You add tongue-in-cheek when talking about Tolkien, but what do you really think about this change? If the films were literally accurate, then further, dwarves would come across as Jewish the way Tolkien intended. But I think that Mongol-appearing orcs and Jewish-sounding dwarves could be a distraction from the core of the story. (Actually, in Lord of the Rings the latter could pass since dwarves appear so little - but it would definitely be a distraction in The Hobbit with its theme of dwarvish greed.)

Does one want to convey the literal details of the story as published in the 1970s when fantasy novels were a niche? Or does one want to convey the core of the novels to a different audience?

zircher

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2023, 04:28:45 PM »
Ha!  There's the answer.  Start the series with a scene in the Courts as a teaser and then flash to 'several days ago...' to start Corwin's story.  You get all the flavors out of the way and shake things up a bit for the classic Amber fans without breaking things.
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Wrath of God

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2023, 02:37:59 PM »
Quote

I think that shock value would distract from the point of the story.

You add tongue-in-cheek when talking about Tolkien, but what do you really think about this change? If the films were literally accurate, then further, dwarves would come across as Jewish the way Tolkien intended. But I think that Mongol-appearing orcs and Jewish-sounding dwarves could be a distraction from the core of the story. (Actually, in Lord of the Rings the latter could pass since dwarves appear so little - but it would definitely be a distraction in The Hobbit with its theme of dwarvish greed.)

Does one want to convey the literal details of the story as published in the 1970s when fantasy novels were a niche? Or does one want to convey the core of the novels to a different audience?

I want to see both core and aesthetics and if woke audience have problem with it - I have no problem with them going to hell.
And like - dwarves are Jewish in ancient Semitic way - not modern hand rubbing memes - so I do not see them distracting especially (though I'd make them speak Common with vaguely Yiddish accent just for lolz) - it's different aesthetic. Would it be distracting for people expecting scottish warhammer dwarves, well fuck those people :P
Also Orcs were meant to look as very ugly caricature of East Asians, so not making them just look like Mongols would be pointless.

Let people be uncomfortable and if they gonna rage on Twitter so be it.
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zircher

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2023, 03:42:15 PM »
If the new Velma series is any indicator, hate watching is a thing.  I wonder if it works on the opposite political axis?
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Wrath of God

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2023, 05:00:03 PM »
I don't know, but honestly while dwarves are sort of Semitic they are not bad guys, nor Jewish caricatures.
Like they look more like ancient Phoenician warriors if anything.

Orcs on the other hand looks like caricatures of Mongols, which is to say not really like Mongols proper, and they do not share culture with them, in fact they behave like degenerated proletariate from big industrial cities.
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Grognard GM

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2023, 08:54:00 PM »
If the new Velma series is any indicator, hate watching is a thing.  I wonder if it works on the opposite political axis?

Firstly, it seems Velma was green lit for a second season before it even dropped.

Secondly, streaming services count "popping in for a sec to look then running away" as 'watching.'

And no, I don't think it works the other way. Wokies get outraged based upon what a talking head tells them happened in something, no watching required. In fact watching is discouraged, because they are in TERROR of catching a stray idea and being ideologically polluted/unpersoned.
I'm a middle aged guy with a lot of free time, looking for similar, to form a group for regular gaming. You should be chill, non-woke, and have time on your hands.

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Headless

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #21 on: July 12, 2023, 04:37:19 AM »
They need a good architect.

Amber was the perfect city on which all others were merely shadows.  So it must be really cool.  Paris maybe but I don't think any english city has ever been called perfect.  Of course Corwin had his rose colored glasses screwed on nice and tight at that point

jibbajibba

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2023, 05:45:40 PM »
Nah, you wouldn't get a dozen or more egotistical princlings living in a castle or city with a father who disappeared for years at a time without most of them making their own changes to the design. The Castle would have a central area built by Oberon, probably practical and utilitarian and then it woudl spin out to wings and additions in all sorts of styles, a cluster of Italinate courtyards, a handful of minarets, etc etc. The City woudl be even more diverse.

As for the Amberites. they really have to be diverse don't they or it simply makes no sense that they are the base shadows. I agree that those with shared mothers need to look alike. I can see Gerard, Caine and Julian as Arabic or African; Corwin, Eric and Diredre as Hispanic; Making Benedict Oriental is too obvious but giving him a native American look works; Random needs to look like Christian Slater in 1995.... 
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Wrath of God

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2023, 12:29:57 PM »
Quote
Amber was the perfect city on which all others were merely shadows.  So it must be really cool.  Paris maybe but I don't think any english city has ever been called perfect.  Of course Corwin had his rose colored glasses screwed on nice and tight at that point

I think you misguide Order with Perfection. Amberites are not Perfect. And their Order is not Absolute Cosmic Order merely carved refugee for Chaosians who were tired with Court's bullshit.
Not sure if Courts are Eternal, Amber most definitely is not.

It's Order creates regularity so all shadows close to Amber will somehow reflect it, they will be simmilar - and less Amber-like further you move in multiverse. But Amber city may be really boring one, or average - and all things you consider cool may come from Courts and their influence over shadows.

Quote
Nah, you wouldn't get a dozen or more egotistical princlings living in a castle or city with a father who disappeared for years at a time without most of them making their own changes to the design. The Castle would have a central area built by Oberon, probably practical and utilitarian and then it woudl spin out to wings and additions in all sorts of styles, a cluster of Italinate courtyards, a handful of minarets, etc etc. The City woudl be even more diverse.

As for the Amberites. they really have to be diverse don't they or it simply makes no sense that they are the base shadows. I agree that those with shared mothers need to look alike. I can see Gerard, Caine and Julian as Arabic or African; Corwin, Eric and Diredre as Hispanic; Making Benedict Oriental is too obvious but giving him a native American look works; Random needs to look like Christian Slater in 1995....

They may be egotistical but they are also Amberites the axis of stability in sea of shifting shadows. The differences between them may be very subtle.
And their mothers - that depends on where they came from. Those from foreign shadows sure let's go nuts. Those from Amber and world neighbour - those should all look like really really not diverse Alabama ;)
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"