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Author Topic: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show  (Read 745 times)

Warder

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Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« on: January 18, 2023, 03:44:57 PM »
As the thread title says, the comedian and studio owner(Spartina) Stephen Colber plans to develop Amber as a tv show. The previous talk with Robert Kirkman seems forgotten.
Original link:

https://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2023/01/stephen-colbert-to-develop-chronicles.html

I would move this to other media but it seems drpg related.

zircher

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2023, 06:12:53 PM »
Thanks for the heads up.
You can find my solo Tarot based rules for Amber on my home page.
http://www.tangent-zero.com

Mistwell

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2023, 01:06:47 AM »
I think it could make a great TV show, and good to know at least one producer is a serious fan of the material.

Wrath of God

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2023, 06:22:27 PM »
I'm sure Amberites gonna be diversed by I just hope they gonna keep ethnic makeup along true sibling lines.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

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With great vengeance and furious anger"


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zircher

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2023, 07:07:54 PM »
Given the nature of shapeshifting and infinite shadow, if the producers feel that they have a diversity quota gun to their head, why not have characters with multiple appearances including gender? 
You can find my solo Tarot based rules for Amber on my home page.
http://www.tangent-zero.com

jhkim

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2023, 05:49:14 PM »
I'm sure Amberites gonna be diversed by I just hope they gonna keep ethnic makeup along true sibling lines.

Within the fictional universe, Oberon was a shape-shifter. So the full siblings should have a little more similarity since their mothers were not shape-shifters, but there's room for a wide variety.

---

For the show producers, I suspect the problem they'll have with that is that they don't want the sibling rivalry of the books to be portrayed as racial conflicts. It doesn't matter which siblings groups are which race - if its part-latino siblings against part-semitic siblings, or part-European siblings against part-Asian siblings, or whichever. Making the deadly rivalries into inter-racial conflicts adds a dimension that wasn't in the books.  That will be uncomfortable for some people no matter what.

On the other hand, if they stick with all-white Amberite characters - that means that all peoples of every reality are lesser reflections of this white family. That is true to the 1970s books, but particularly when it is presented in a visual medium, I think it will be uncomfortable for many viewers today.

zircher

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2023, 06:55:53 PM »
Kind of sad that they will have to do that juggling act, but it is what it is.  Of course, some folks are going to be whiney about it no matter the choices made.
You can find my solo Tarot based rules for Amber on my home page.
http://www.tangent-zero.com

jhkim

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2023, 02:42:59 AM »
Kind of sad that they will have to do that juggling act, but it is what it is.  Of course, some folks are going to be whiney about it no matter the choices made.

I wonder about how I'd approach it. I think the cultural portrayal of Amber is one of the weaker sides of the books' concept. All realities are a reflection of a generic-seeming English castle with its family stepping out of Shakespeare? It fit with fantasy standards of the 1970s, but it isn't very interesting for a visual medium.

I'd want Amber to be more fantastical, with impossible and wacky mixed architecture that looks amazing and weird - like the Taj Mahal, Versaille and Chichen Itza put together with magic - giving more believable that the roots of all the variety of reality is from there.

I'd also think about throwing in a bit more of the fantastical into the sibling's looks. That's already canonical with Llewella and her naturally green hair, but the others could have a lesser degree of that. Clarissa's kids could have odd strains of red hair that changes shade to reflect their sorcery. Rilga's kids might be more animalistic in appearance, perhaps - fitting Julian's pets, Caine's craft, and Gerard's strength.

For a visual medium, you want more of everything's visual appearance to convey more of the story and the background compared to a book.

Grognard GM

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2023, 12:13:18 AM »
I wonder about how I'd approach it. I think the cultural portrayal of Amber is one of the weaker sides of the books' concept. All realities are a reflection of a generic-seeming English castle with its family stepping out of Shakespeare? It fit with fantasy standards of the 1970s, but it isn't very interesting for a visual medium.

Good to see "respecting the source material" tossed haphazardly off of the table.

Every time I see someone dismiss a style or concept as old fashioned, and in need of 'updating,' I always think "according to whom?"
I'm a middle aged guy with a lot of free time, looking for similar, to form a group for regular gaming. You should be chill, non-woke, and have time on your hands.

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jhkim

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2023, 02:23:19 AM »
I wonder about how I'd approach it. I think the cultural portrayal of Amber is one of the weaker sides of the books' concept. All realities are a reflection of a generic-seeming English castle with its family stepping out of Shakespeare? It fit with fantasy standards of the 1970s, but it isn't very interesting for a visual medium.

Good to see "respecting the source material" tossed haphazardly off of the table.

Every time I see someone dismiss a style or concept as old fashioned, and in need of 'updating,' I always think "according to whom?"

As I clearly said, I was giving my personal take on it.

All of the fantasy classics had major changes in going to film, from the Wizard of Oz to the Lord of the Rings.

Wrath of God

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2023, 09:17:39 AM »
Quote
Given the nature of shapeshifting and infinite shadow, if the producers feel that they have a diversity quota gun to their head, why not have characters with multiple appearances including gender?

I kinda enjoy idea of Amberites look and trappings shifting from Shadow to Shadow to fit in, not cause sort of Paradox.
With Chaosites - sure full shapeshifting. Let it roll.

Within the fictional universe, Oberon was a shape-shifter. So the full siblings should have a little more similarity since their mothers were not shape-shifters, but there's room for a wide variety.

Quote
On the other hand, if they stick with all-white Amberite characters - that means that all peoples of every reality are lesser reflections of this white family. That is true to the 1970s books, but particularly when it is presented in a visual medium, I think it will be uncomfortable for many viewers today.

Quote
I wonder about how I'd approach it. I think the cultural portrayal of Amber is one of the weaker sides of the books' concept. All realities are a reflection of a generic-seeming English castle with its family stepping out of Shakespeare? It fit with fantasy standards of the 1970s, but it isn't very interesting for a visual medium.

I mean yes... but not. Thing is Courts of Chaos were natural Axis of Creation, Amber was made later, artificially by Dworkin, his little personal utopia.
It brings multiverse to certain order depending on how given shadow places between Amber and Courts, but it's not like all in them is impression of Amber, most of things on Earth can be just element of original infinite diversity that existed before Pattern.

Quote
I'd want Amber to be more fantastical, with impossible and wacky mixed architecture that looks amazing and weird - like the Taj Mahal, Versaille and Chichen Itza put together with magic - giving more believable that the roots of all the variety of reality is from there.

But that's chaos. Infinite varieties mixed together. That's how Courts should look like.

Quote
Every time I see someone dismiss a style or concept as old fashioned, and in need of 'updating,' I always think "according to whom?"

I'd say it's less "updating" but also examining setting own coherence. And here honestly if making adaptation I'd notice glaring holes, then I would shift it to make it more coherent and fans can burn in hell with their plotholes ;)

Alas I believe jhkim is wrong in this regard, because Amber is not source of all creation - Courts are, and Courts and Logrus, and multiverse existed millenia before Dworkin forged Amber like a new Axis for Shadows. So it makes sense to make Amber very uniform, and Chaos very diverse. It's not after all like Chaosians are really bad guys.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

jhkim

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2023, 01:14:03 PM »
Quote from: jhkim
I'd want Amber to be more fantastical, with impossible and wacky mixed architecture that looks amazing and weird - like the Taj Mahal, Versaille and Chichen Itza put together with magic - giving more believable that the roots of all the variety of reality is from there.

But that's chaos. Infinite varieties mixed together. That's how Courts should look like.

Quote from: Grognard GM
Every time I see someone dismiss a style or concept as old fashioned, and in need of 'updating,' I always think "according to whom?"

I'd say it's less "updating" but also examining setting own coherence. And here honestly if making adaptation I'd notice glaring holes, then I would shift it to make it more coherent and fans can burn in hell with their plotholes ;)

Alas I believe jhkim is wrong in this regard, because Amber is not source of all creation - Courts are, and Courts and Logrus, and multiverse existed millenia before Dworkin forged Amber like a new Axis for Shadows. So it makes sense to make Amber very uniform, and Chaos very diverse. It's not after all like Chaosians are really bad guys.

OK, it's a fair critique. On review, I agree with Wrath of God. Amber shouldn't be mixed.

On the other hand, it should still be visually interesting, and whatever choice is made, the visual appearance will be a big part of how the film adaptation comes across. What does the appearance convey?

For comparison, this is something I leaned into in my recently-ended variant Amber Diceless campaign, the Jade Throne. I kept exactly the same rules, but the background was rewritten as Chinese. I felt it is a very fittingly Chinese concept that they are the center of the universe and the source of all Order. In my campaign, the distant First Emperor called to mind both Zelazny's Oberon and Qin Shi Huangdi, which gave some very negative connotations to the original Pattern - that it is founded in violent imperialism over all of reality. A bunch of the campaign was dealing with the First Emperor's legacy and the Pattern.

---

If the visual style of Amber and the Amberites is purely Shakespearean English, that could have a similar connotation. Shakespeare was around the time as England was forming the Empire on which the sun never sets. The descriptions of the novel fit with this. Then Corwin's second Pattern based on more modern Paris could be seen as a moderation of English dominance.

I think that is one thematic take on the novels, but it isn't the only one. As I think more, it could work, but I'm not sure if its one that I would choose. Again, the visual detail is an addition to the written story no matter what. The question is what parts of the story the details bring out.

In some other modern fantasy, pure Order is visually represented as geometric shapes - which avoids cultural connotations, but I don't think that works for Amber.

Wrath of God

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2023, 01:37:41 PM »
"On the other hand, it should still be visually interesting, and whatever choice is made, the visual appearance will be a big part of how the film adaptation comes across. What does the appearance convey?
"

I mean Amber itself can be extremely classical, cookie-cutter castle, I'd definitely use some "sacred geometry" - some elements from Pattern in patterns around Amber, it's gardens, bricks in walls and tapestries.

Let's remember large part of Chronicles took part in various other places - so there can be very much visual artistry without trying to outdo Amber.
Like in first book - you run between 60's Earth, some weird fantasy worlds where armies are gathered, Amber, underwater kingdoms... that's a lot.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"

jhkim

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2023, 02:47:13 PM »
Quote from: jhkim
On the other hand, it should still be visually interesting, and whatever choice is made, the visual appearance will be a big part of how the film adaptation comes across. What does the appearance convey?

I mean Amber itself can be extremely classical, cookie-cutter castle, I'd definitely use some "sacred geometry" - some elements from Pattern in patterns around Amber, it's gardens, bricks in walls and tapestries.

Let's remember large part of Chronicles took part in various other places - so there can be very much visual artistry without trying to outdo Amber.
Like in first book - you run between 60's Earth, some weird fantasy worlds where armies are gathered, Amber, underwater kingdoms... that's a lot.

When you say "classical" and "cookie-cutter", those have different meaning to different people. For fantasy fans who grew up in the 1970s, it might mean one thing. But for kids who grew up in the 2010s, the same design won't necessarily come across as "classical" and "cookie-cutter". So it has a different meaning.

This is especially true if this is a big-budget fantasy film intended to sell to international audiences. That is a much wider audience than Zelazny was writing to in the 1970s.

Regarding other worlds - My point is that the design shouldn't be just to throw in arbitrary visual glitter. The visual design of the film is important for the meaning. For example, there are reasons why Peter Jackson chose to ignore Tolkien's description that orcs look like ugly "Mongol types", but instead chose a different appearance.

The appearance of Amber will be crucial to the films because it conveys how the viewers conceive of Amber as the supposed center of all reality.

Wrath of God

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Re: Stephen Colbers Amber tv show
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2023, 03:08:58 PM »
Quote
For example, there are reasons why Peter Jackson chose to ignore Tolkien's description that orcs look like ugly "Mongol types", but instead chose a different appearance.

I think mostly because he could hire only white or Maori kiwis for extras really :P

Quote
The appearance of Amber will be crucial to the films because it conveys how the viewers conceive of Amber as the supposed center of all reality.

Yes, and it should be terribly narrow and undiverse centre of reality, and if people in first two seasons gonna be shocked or enraged by it - before they get glimpse of Courts... so be it.
"Never compromise. Not even in the face of Armageddon.”

"And I will strike down upon thee
With great vengeance and furious anger"


"Molti Nemici, Molto Onore"