Finding someone with Pattern

[nbk]

Hello.

Please be nice with my poor english langage. It's not my native langage at all. Most of the time I didn't have any issues to understand you. I have already read a lot of thread here, which are awesome.

The Rulesbook says that it's possible to find a specific personn (Bleys was the example) by shadow walking.
I don't recall to find an example inside the book.
I have on the contrary these examples in mind :
- Random was looking for Corwin and didn't find him, and Earth don't have any protection against Pattern.
- Brand asked a lot of question in order to make a Trump of Martin... it should be easier to find him in by Shadow walking.

Have you got some amplification or examples for me.

Thx

Nicolas.

[zircher]

While it may not be canon, Corwin was being hidden by his siblings.  They lied to the others and they may have exerted their abilities to make Earth a shadow that is avoided rather than sought.  Martin specifically was hiding.  It seems that the same ability to not be found was in effect.  That's what also makes the tragoliths so special since they are immune to this shadow avoidance effect.

[nbk]

Martin specifically was hiding.

Thanks for your answer.
I get the first point about Corwin and flora might have some tricks in her sleeves in order to counter Shadow walking on Earth.
For the second point, IIRC Martin started to hide himself after Brand tried to use him as a Marelle eraser.

[Brad]

In my opinion, finding a real person in shadow should be relatively easy unless they're hiding; it makes sense their influence on the surrounding environment would be like a beacon at night.

RE: Brand, he had never met Martin, right? That might overly complicate the process, and Brand was probably both lazy and powerful enough to decide not to waste his time hellriding and just ask a lot of questions to make the trump instead. Further, by trumping him in at the pattern, he totally circumvented having to convince Martin to go there, for whatever reason. I think there was a lot more to the trump than simply being unwilling to search shadow.

[nbk]

Ok thanks for the answer.

I'm not on the same page for Brand. For me he is all but lazy et cope the lack of warfare attribute with a lot of preparation. It's especially true because he's got a lot of bad stuff and the only way to fight it is to anticipate for the worst-case scenario. With that in mind I think that he would prefer to establish a good relationship with Martin iot to trump him at the right moment.


But all of these are assumption. There is not fact helping to prove if it is possible or not by the book standard. So I imagine I should stick to the rules... just I think it's too easy for a player to have this capability.

Anyone else with an answer or some insight about this subject ?

[LarsonGates]

The books are actually clear on this. If you have never met the person, then you are just, if not more likely to find a copy than the real person. The same is true of Brand attempting to create a trump of the real Martin.

[nbk]

Hey !! Very interesting answer LarsonGates.
It will allow more possibilities when my players will start to search people they don't know very well. Perfect for setting up some good tricks.
Thx.

[Thanateros]

If you have never met the person, then you are just, if not more likely to find a copy than the real person.

That notion of lesser copies opens a plethora of possibilities that both GMs and players can utilize; copies of people, copies of places, copies of objects, etc.  As lesser copies, the copies could still be magically potent, just less so [initially anyway].

[Timothe]

Could it be possible that Corwin couldn't be tracked there because of his centuries on Earth making it a more "real" place rather than just another shadow? Sort of as if it's his signature shadow working in his favor.

[Thondor]

That notion of lesser copies opens a plethora of possibilities that both GMs and players can utilize; copies of people, copies of places, copies of objects, etc.  As lesser copies, the copies could still be magically potent, just less so [initially anyway].

This sort of begs the question of course: was the Greyswandir (Corwin's sword) that Random shadow-shifted into the trunk of their car in Nine Prince's the "real Greyswandir"? Did it become the real Greyswandir when Corwin walked the Pattern in Remba with it?
How about after he regained his eyes and was first shadow shifting and found Greyswandir behind a tree "because it had to be there."?

In the Merlin saga Corwin's pattern ghost has some sort of "lesser" version of Greyswandir. This seems to explicitly be not the real Greyswandir.

[Thanateros]

...was the Greyswandir (Corwin's sword) that Random shadow-shifted into the trunk of their car in Nine Prince's the "real Greyswandir"? Did it become the real Greyswandir when Corwin walked the Pattern in Remba with it?

I rather like the notion of a lesser copy of a Pattern-imprinted spikard-sword becoming more "real" upon traversal through a Pattern.  To avoid then having two identical "real" Grayswandirs, I would say that the state of mind of the Pattern-walker and characteristics of the exact Pattern being walked etc. would shape the newly "real" spikard-sword somehow, making it unique from the original.

[Warder]

I think it also depends on the will of the Pattern itself or who wants u to find that person(Dworkin specifically playing against his opposite chessmaster) and if other methods are beeing used to fugue the pattern searching, like logrus for example. So there are ways and means to keep running and obscuring the hunt, who knows how long they can be used, probably depends who has more Endurance.