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Author Topic: Question about PC survival in the 5th tome  (Read 228 times)

Vector

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Question about PC survival in the 5th tome
« on: September 10, 2020, 09:17:46 PM »
Hi! I'm thinking about GMing an Amber campaign. For some years already, while I was playing and GMing other games =)
I have plenty of ideas for game plots, tons of homemade lore and my own madly extended vision of Amber multiverse for spicing (quantum-holographic-eldritch-non-euclidean to the point I've had to learn some math to understand what have I done, really, lol). But. I still have two big issues. Sorcery (yeah, this again), but I think I found a way to manage it after I slept one year on LoGaS books. And existence of the PCs who were born before the 5th tome events.
Considering the fact that the wave of destruction produced by Oberon's attempt to fix the Pattern had crossed the entire Shadow from Mt Colvir to the Abyss, how the (lost or forgotten?) prince offspring could survive this annihilation? If I follow the lore, a shadow can pretty much be destroyed, it's OK we've seen that. The lore tells us that the fixed Pattern had recreated or regenerated or refilled the destroyed Shadow. Or am I missing something? How, idk, Fiona's daughter could survive if she was somewhere in the Shadow when everything collapsed? If she was not in Amber or in the Courts or in some sort of absolute stasis made by eldritch demons somewhere in the deeps of the primordial Chaos of course... She was not a part of the Shadow nor she was a great master of Pattern to protect herself somehow. Why is she still alive? Any ideas? How do you manage the 5th tome consequences in your games? Thanks.
/sorry if my English is not perfect, I do my best
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 09:19:20 PM by Vector »

LarsonGates

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Re: Question about PC survival in the 5th tome
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2020, 04:03:15 PM »
If your theory holds then none of the Merlin series is possible.. ergo the effect of Oberon's fixing the Pattern is not as severe as you think, and whilst there is some destruction or rewriting of shadow the net effect is actually zero in most cases.
You may also want to look at my ruleset based on the "Netbook of Amber" http://www.azer.co.uk/amber/amber.html

Vector

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Re: Question about PC survival in the 5th tome
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2020, 10:44:16 PM »
ergo the effect of Oberon's fixing the Pattern is not as severe as you think, and whilst there is some destruction or rewriting of shadow the net effect is actually zero in most cases
Thanks for your reply!If you are right Corwin just could sit on his butt and wait for the shadow storm to pass. Oberon was too scared and cast princes away, Corwin was too scared and summoned his own Pattern. This is so... boring? And what about Corwin's visions of Chaos talking to him and trying to exhaust his will? So, he was just tired and suffered through too much stress. Hallucinations and stuff... I just can't accept this interpretation. It completely ruins the climax of the original books.
Why Merlin series are not possible my way? Well, Dalt and Coral were probably somewhere in the Golden Circle which could be a rather safe place, too close to Amber to be heavily altered.The Keep of the Four Worlds and other places of great power could be safe too. And for the Courts, I'm not sure, there's a big lack of information about the effects of the storm in the Courts. Some of chaos spawns actually praised it...

LarsonGates

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Re: Question about PC survival in the 5th tome
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2020, 03:03:57 AM »
Your theory doesn't hold.. explosions follow an inverse square law, so the intensity of the shadow destruction effect would be greatest closest to the source, ergo the Golden circle would be completely destroyed, where as shadows further away would suffer less and less.The other explanation is that shadows more heavily influenced by chaos but furthest from the logrus would be heavily affected by the restoration of order but any shadow that has any form of real element wouldn't be. Since all actual Amberite descendants are real, then any shadow where they resided for any length of time would acquire a significant real element and therefore be largely unaffected.

Vector

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Re: Question about PC survival in the 5th tome
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2020, 12:06:56 PM »
Why it has to be explosion-like? Why not tsunami wave-like when the water in the open ocean still rather safe but the amplitude of waves raises in shallow waters and become really destructive upon reaching the coast ? =) And it can be explained by the density of reality close to Amber.
Since all actual Amberite descendants are real, then any shadow where they resided for any length of time would acquire a significant real element and therefore be largely unaffected.
I like this one. It makes sense! It also means that a shadow reality can be strengthened enough just by the presence of Unicorn blood, so the Pattern imprint is not needed for that to happen. It IS consistent lore-wise. RZ never told it was related to the Pattern. But I don't think it is expressed in the ADRP rules...

LarsonGates

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Re: Question about PC survival in the 5th tome
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2020, 05:43:24 PM »
I like this one. It makes sense! It also means that a shadow reality can be strengthened enough just by the presence of Unicorn blood, so the Pattern imprint is not needed for that to happen. It IS consistent lore-wise. RZ never told it was related to the Pattern. But I don't think it is expressed in the ADRP rules...
This is your own interpretation. There's nothing specific in the books that associates the Unicorn with Order and the Pattern, nor in the original ADRP rules. There is a reference to the fact the Unicorn may have taught Dworkin how to create the Pattern but nothing concrete.
As to the ADRP rules there are lots of things they don't cover, even in Shadow Knight. It's what makes Amber games so interesting, every Amber GM imposes their own spin on how they interpret what's in the books, and in my own the Unicorn is neither Good, Lawful,nor a positive force. I use a much different interpretation of what the Unicorn represents and how it behaves.

Vector

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Re: Question about PC survival in the 5th tome
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2020, 09:58:02 AM »
This is your own interpretation. There's nothing specific in the books that associates the Unicorn with Order and the Pattern, nor in the original ADRP rules. There is a reference to the fact the Unicorn may have taught Dworkin how to create the Pattern but nothing concrete.
As to the ADRP rules there are lots of things they don't cover, even in Shadow Knight. It's what makes Amber games so interesting, every Amber GM imposes their own spin on how they interpret what's in the books, and in my own the Unicorn is neither Good, Lawful,nor a positive force. I use a much different interpretation of what the Unicorn represents and how it behaves.
Well, if Corwin and Merlin are nothing but BS-generators... but if they are not, there is enough in the books to associate the Unicorn and the Serpent to Order and Chaos. We even have obvious quotes like
Quote
I shifted my gaze to the deep, cool blackness, but there was no rest for my eyes in that place either. Something stirred within the darkness, and there came another sound, a grating, as of metal being scraped on stone. This was followed by a powerful hissing. The ground trembled again. Curved lines flowed forward. Even before the brightness of the Unicorn etched its lineaments within that mighty gloom, I realized it was the head of a one-eyed serpent which had come partway into the chapel. I shifted my gaze to a point between them, catching each within my peripheral vision. Far better than any attempt to behold either directly I felt their gazes upon me, the Unicorn of Order and the Serpent of Chaos. It was not a pleasant feeling, and I retreated until the altar was at my back.
In my ADRP homework I kept them as agents of those forces, but they are not the only agents. I made more chthonic beasts with their own agendas and relationships.
So I wonder what is the nature of the Beasts in your campaigns.