So I Don't Think I Get Amber

[RPGPundit]

I think something is definitely lost when you don't run an auction. But at the same time I do think its better to do a small-group game with no auction than to just say "well, we can't run an auction so we won't play Amber at all".

RPGPundit

[finarvyn]

I think something is definitely lost when you don't run an auction. But at the same time I do think its better to do a small-group game with no auction than to just say "well, we can't run an auction so we won't play Amber at all".

That was my solution.

In an ideal world ADRP would be played exactly by the book, but it doesn't always work out that way for every group. If a 2E ADRP was ever to be published I'd like to see sections that discuss alternate ways to run the game, along with short pros and cons of each. I'll bet there are other groups where the auction doesn't work, as I'll bet there are other groups that prefer points to ranks or other alternate methods of play.

[Arref]

That was my solution.

In an ideal world ADRP would be played exactly by the book, but it doesn't always work out that way for every group. If a 2E ADRP was ever to be published I'd like to see sections that discuss alternate ways to run the game, along with short pros and cons of each. I'll bet there are other groups where the auction doesn't work, as I'll bet there are other groups that prefer points to ranks or other alternate methods of play.

As to alternate auctions, I'm not sure if this has appeared elsewhere in the forum but...

I've started an Amber game with fewer players and run the auction anyhow. You can run a game with 1 to 3 players and add into the startup the same generation NPCs for the auction.

Because, if you've done the prep work on NPC personalities, then you can have them submit 'bids' to the GM and have them 'play' out the auction process to get the entire feel of conflict before the game starts.

[jibbajibba]

As to alternate auctions, I'm not sure if this has appeared elsewhere in the forum but...

I've started an Amber game with fewer players and run the auction anyhow. You can run a game with 1 to 3 players and add into the startup the same generation NPCs for the auction.

Because, if you've done the prep work on NPC personalities, then you can have them submit 'bids' to the GM and have them 'play' out the auction process to get the entire feel of conflict before the game starts.

I always put all my NPCs into the auction pot. I do think the auction needs a few tweaks so stuff like maximum raises is a good idea since he game is based on 5s for the skills I typically use 5s so you can't come in with 1st bid - 100 warfare for example. You actually get an auction.

The most inovative I think was at GenCon where I write all the PCs 8 of them then write some secrets then create some positions with benefits then give everyone 10 points and the character description of each PC picture and brief text. then the 6 players get to bid with their 10 points any remainder are ablative good stuff ie good stuff you can spend or you can go into bad stuff which of course is permanent.
Really works well. And sets up the player tensions almost as well as a real auction though of course the PCs are pregens I do try to make them interesting.

[RPGPundit]

Lords of Olympus provides several alternatives to the standard "bidding war with classes" method of character creation.

RPGPundit

[Taewakan]

I know what you mean. That example of rules lawyering seemed wierd to to me at first too. The GM is clearly in the wrong for forgetting about danger sense but the GM steamrollers through it anyway.
 
As I understand it now the point is not that as a GM you should never make a mistake. The point is that when a mistake occurs you should correct it and move forward without getting dragged into a rules fight.
 
It's counterintuitive but it is one of those 'tricks' you were looking for. By denying the players the opportunity to call a rules lawyering time out, you keep the story moving. Many of the GMing examples show the same senario: the player tries to stall and the GM asks "do you want to stall IN GAME?"

As a DM, my job is to tell you HOW what you do interacts with the rest of the universe, Not to explain WHY.

There are several reason why the cat might not sense the thrown item. Did it represent a real threat to the character or was it just annoying. The cat DID respond with more than a hint of danger sense later. Perhaps the one who threw the item didn't know who was in the room in the first place and only decided to attack after finding out. The possible reason are not quite endless, but close enough.

I have run into rules lawyers before. They don't last long in my games. If they want to run the game themselves then they should, but if they are a player then they are there to play. Not moderate.

In the words of Joss Whedon "Grrr Arrrrgh!"

[Taewakan]

This sounds like the classic character creation vs. character play conundrum.

Many players enjoy the character creation aspect of the game MORE than the actual play. Traveler is a game where the creation process can be very entertaining. Building a starship or a mech-vehicle can be fun.

Then there are the player-players. Some play their characters as created. Some play the same character regardless of race, class or attributes.

Some will love the auction. Some will go along because you tell them that's the way character creation is done in this game. Some will come to the understanding that the auction IS part of the play.

I have DMed Amber groups ranging in number from one to seven players. A bout a third (2ish) LOVED the character creation process and auction. I received a small book from three players describing their character's background, their artifacts and the shadows they created.

One was a pure role-player that had no use for a character sheet. She had a very firm character idea in mind and relied upon me to tell her how her character's actions affected her and the rest of the universe. It was a little more work initially, but not so much more after we got started. It is easy to extrapolate from actions to attributes and powers. This player had a new power she wanted her character to learn and test. It made play more interesting since she was an AWSOME role-player.

The rest were power players and dating game enthusiasts who spent their time vying for the attention of various elders and NPCs. A wonderfully complex, varied and entertaining group.
The game went on weekly for 5 years.
Le sigh - the nostalgia!

[Premier]

Slightly tangential, perhaps, but what I don't think I get about Amber is how to structure and adventure/game/campaign/whatever, and I just don't think the book gives any sort of real advice on that. I mean, as someone coming from D&D, I understand how to create and run a dungeon crawl, or a sandbox campaign with lots of exploration and domain management. Or a Travelleresque campaign for a freeranging mercenary outfit. Or anything. I also realise that an Amber campaign is very likely NOT supposed to be anything like that. What I don't get is what is it supposed to be like, then?

What I think would be tremendously helpful for people who might be interested in the game are a few session writeups. Or a group recording a few of their sessions - about a "story arc's" worth - and posting it on Youtube. But as far as I can tell, there just doesn't seem to be anything like that out there. Which is a pity, because the basic adventuring premises of the game are nowhere near is simple and intuitive as "go into these dungeons, kill monsters and take their stuff".

[warp9]

Ambers multiverse nature would mean there were two approaches. Cover everything to do that you would need a rule book so densely packed it creaked at the seems. Systems for space dogfights, 16th century duels, modern warefare, fantasy creatures, faey, werewolves... It would need to be a combination of D&D, WoD, Twilight 2000, Traveller and Rifts.

Sounds like Hero System. (although opinions will vary on exactly how well Hero pulls all that stuff off, IMO it does a pretty good job)

Personally, I'd like to see a more "rules heavy" approach, but I've also had a lot of fun playing Amber as Wujcik set it up.

[Taewakan]

Slightly tangential, perhaps, but what I don't think I get about Amber is how to structure and adventure/game/campaign/whatever, and I just don't think the book gives any sort of real advice on that. I mean, as someone coming from D&D, I understand how to create and run a dungeon crawl, or a sandbox campaign with lots of exploration and domain management. Or a Travelleresque campaign for a freeranging mercenary outfit. Or anything. I also realise that an Amber campaign is very likely NOT supposed to be anything like that. What I don't get is what is it supposed to be like, then?

What I think would be tremendously helpful for people who might be interested in the game are a few session writeups. Or a group recording a few of their sessions - about a "story arc's" worth - and posting it on Youtube. But as far as I can tell, there just doesn't seem to be anything like that out there. Which is a pity, because the basic adventuring premises of the game are nowhere near is simple and intuitive as "go into these dungeons, kill monsters and take their stuff".

Amber is what you and your players make of it. Period. Ad infinitum. This is what I love about it. The Amber-multiverse is the definition of open-ended. Zelazny gave us that when he defined the narrators of his stories as being lying ---s. Their view of the multiverse is self-serving. They have a point of view and that is the part of the multiverse that they focus upon. It by no means represents the entirety of the multiverse.
You can have a free-ranging mercenary outfit, a single multi-dimensional assassin (or assassin's guild) or a group of adventurers that has fallen through an Einstein-Rosen bridge into a crack between Amber and the closest Golden Circle realm... In addition to being a scion of any given royal family in the Amber-multiverse.

I see your problem, but I am not certain there is an average example of any given Amber arc. You can force a group through a dungeon crawl and if your characters piss-off an elder they can end up like Merlin in an In-between Space subject to various forms of taunting and torture, but most of the story arcs I have watched and provided are an example of an in-process plot.
If you have played D&D (or any of its variations) extensively, then you have a good idea what kind of plots are available.

The challenge of Amber is that even the weakest PC still has the potential to redirect any given plot line.

One of the hardest things a DM has to learn is to give up control of where the story is going. Amber, at least MY Amber, is not a set piece. Once you throw in time travel in any form, the game, the entire game, is up in the air. Oberon could be brought back to life by a clever player just by kidnapping Oberon and substituting a clone for him before he repairs the pattern. And after the Unicorn chooses Random, why would he come back and try to usurp the title of king from his son? And that is just an example of one thing that can happen when you add the world of Dr. Who to the Amber-multiverse. In my experience, the PCs, especially as a group, are far more creative than I, so this probably isn't even a good example - just one that I've seen, though the details make it much more entertaining than how I presented it.

As a DM I create plots with the elders of Amber and the Courts and then add monkey wrenches - the PCs - and watch the machine grind. Your experience with multiple systems and backgrounds for stories will serve you well. One of the most entertaining things for me is to confront a character designed to be from a fantasy world with a world of or from science fiction. J. R. R. Tolkien meets Azimov is always interesting.

But this is only my personal form of entertainment. I offer it as a single example of the multitude of different forms of campaigns available to a moderator of the Amber-verse.

Enjoy!

[Arref]

I also realize that an Amber campaign is very likely NOT supposed to be anything like that. What I don't get is what is it supposed to be like, then?

What I think would be tremendously helpful for people who might be interested in the game are a few session writeups.

Let me start by saying there are a few such resources around, you might find them with some serious Google time. I'll provide a link to a very complete PC diary if you have time to wade through character arcs.

But consider the overall approach:  these are stories about powerful family members, not really the adventure, per say.

Corwin's story is less about his quest for the throne than it is about HIM.  In D&D, the focus is your accomplishments (your treasure, your experience points). In Amber, the focus shifts. You have a hundred years of accomplishments... adventure is something that happens to you all the time... but what are your goals? what are your favorite things to get family to help you with? what are your pet peeves or things in the Universe that you will 'correct' through your efforts?

Create those framing devices... and you are off and running.

link to Cassandra diaries (note the first page has included GM notes):
http://home.comcast.net/~arrefmak/aedev/CASS1.htm

[RPGPundit]

Yes. I'd said it many times before: the fundamental theme of Amber is of a big dysfunctional family.   That's the core, and all the adventure goes from there.

Ditto with Lords of Olympus.

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