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Author Topic: Is Amber really that difficult to play?  (Read 3597 times)

James McMurray

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2006, 02:38:51 PM »
No. It was my need to restate things to make sure I'm on the same page as someone else. Tu inglés es muy bueno. :)

If that's broken spanish I apologize. I'm from Texas. :)

SunBoy

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2006, 02:53:06 PM »
Quote from: James McMurray
No. It was my need to restate things to make sure I'm on the same page as someone else. Tu inglés es muy bueno. :)

If that's broken spanish I apologize. I'm from Texas. :)


Not at all, that's perfect spanish. And thanks.
"Real randomness, I've discovered, is the result of two or more role-players interacting"

Erick Wujcik, 2007

Otha

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2006, 09:16:31 AM »
Quote from: SunBoy
Running your game only with "cool stuff that can happen" can be nice, but you have to have some kind of idea of what's happening in the world around your players.


Oh, of course.  I put stuff into the notebook with an eye to what the players had done in the last session, and I only pulled stuff out when it was appropriate to the play as it was happening.  That's hardly a 'storyline' though.
 

SunBoy

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2006, 11:01:06 AM »
I think, however, that in a game like Amber, you need a storyline. And that's hardly the same as railroading ;) .
"Real randomness, I've discovered, is the result of two or more role-players interacting"

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RPGPundit

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2006, 01:45:43 PM »
My amber games have the least plotline of any campaign I ever run.  They just have a bunch of NPCs running around doing stuff with different motives, and a bunch of PCs doing the same.

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Otha

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2006, 06:20:36 AM »
Quote from: SunBoy
I think, however, that in a game like Amber, you need a storyline. And that's hardly the same as railroading ;) .


Okay.  Definition, please?
 

Otha

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2006, 06:21:10 AM »
Quote from: RPGPundit
My amber games have the least plotline of any campaign I ever run.  They just have a bunch of NPCs running around doing stuff with different motives, and a bunch of PCs doing the same.


This is the best way, IMHO.
 

SunBoy

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2006, 09:55:24 AM »
"A bunch of NPCs doing stuff with different motives" is a kind of a storyline. Storyline: Things happening in the world not directely caused by the PCs. They have a start, a development and an end, any of which can vary if some or many PCs get involved. That's about it, simply put.
"Real randomness, I've discovered, is the result of two or more role-players interacting"

Erick Wujcik, 2007

Otha

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2006, 10:23:30 AM »
It's not a storyline.  It's a story structure, into which storylines can be laid.
 

finarvyn

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2006, 11:33:54 AM »
I believe that most players want to have some sort of story unfold during the course of an adventure, and like to believe that there is a single mastermind directing that story. Some sort of behind-the-scenes action (which is probably hidden to the players) allows for players to experience surprise as events unfold, which is harder to achive when everyone decides together.
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Otha

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2006, 06:14:21 AM »
Well, I'm not most players.

I believe that there is a significant number (perhaps a minority, perhaps not, I can't say) of players who want to feel that they have an impact on events, that what they do matters.  They want to feel that the conflicts they're in really CAN go either way, most of the time.

I agree that there are players out there who insist on "winning" most of the time, who find winning more desirable than losing, and only accept losses when they can expect a bigger win later.  I don't like playing with those players.

I like playing with people who can find losing just as interesting as winning, who want their characters' actions to decide the fate of things rather than a GM's pre-plotted story, and who can bring just as much creative energy to the table as me.

But that's just me.
 

finarvyn

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2006, 10:20:36 PM »
Quote from: Otha
Well, I'm not most players.

I believe that there is a significant number (perhaps a minority, perhaps not, I can't say) of players who want to feel that they have an impact on events, that what they do matters.  They want to feel that the conflicts they're in really CAN go either way, most of the time.

I guess I don't see why this can't work with a pre-determined storyline. When I script a plotline, I don't think to myself "Okay, so Otha is going to win a duel with Bleys and then Otha will decide to attack Amber..."

My players always have an impact on events, and what they do does matter. The difference is that as an active GM I have a general plan of what others (NPCs) are doing at the same time. If a bunch of players put together a story without GM guidance, no one is really organizing the actions of NPCs.

A GM-run story to me is not the same as reading a novel -- none of us know the ending yet. (I'm not running a linear module, but giving my players a situation in which they can interact and determine what happens next.) In fact, as much as I plot and plan I can never quite anticipate the actions of my players, so often I'm as surprised as they are as to how the story turns out. My players will come up with some sort of unexpected idea or way to shift the story, and their conflicts can go either way depending upon how they play the scene.
Marv / Finarvyn
Kingmaker of Amber
I'm pretty much responsible for the S&W WB rules.
Amber Diceless Player since 1993
OD&D Player since 1975

James McMurray

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2006, 01:02:56 AM »
Whenever I run a game there's always a "storyline." The players may never even come across it or they may the its primary authors, but I always know what's going on in the world, and what will occur if the PCs don't do anything to change it.

Otha

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2006, 08:33:37 AM »
Quote from: finarvyn
If a bunch of players put together a story without GM guidance, no one is really organizing the actions of NPCs.

Well, of course...

But you're assuming that the actions of NPC's have to be important.  If the GM is taking a hands-off attitude towards the flow of play, or if there's no true GM at all, then the actions of the PC's are the only ones that drive things forward.

Oh, yeah, here's your sign for you:

:forge:

Now if you've got players who aren't willing to drive things forward, then you'll have a problem with this mode of play.  Given that thirty years of RPG's have been teaching us that it's the GM's job to drive things forward, this is not uncommon to encounter... but it's not the only way to play.
 

finarvyn

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Is Amber really that difficult to play?
« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2006, 05:48:32 PM »
Quote from: Otha
Oh, yeah, here's your sign for you:
:forge:

Actually, I've never quite understood what they are talking about at the Forge. I get the gist of Narration vs Simulation and a few of their general terms, but then they start spewing terminology to the point where my brain refuses to grasp it. It's like I'm a creature of Law and they are creatures of Chaos (or the other way around). :ponder:

Anyway ... it could be that I am too indoctrinated into the "old school" mentality of RPGs such that the DM sets up a situation and the players follow along. I always thought of myself as being pretty progressive since I rarely run "modules" but instead generate lists of hooks and then let the players decide which ones to follow, but again I'm setting up the situation even if my players have more options than usual.

I guess I need to experience a GM-less game once or twice to get the proper feel for how it works. The fact that I can't imagine it working well probably just shows my lack of imagination rather than a flaw in that style of gaming -- the fact that you can pull it off is proof of that!

Quote from: Otha
If there's no true GM at all, then the actions of the PC's are the only ones that drive things forward.

So ... if the players don't drive the game forward but instead wallow around in confusion, what happens next?
Marv / Finarvyn
Kingmaker of Amber
I'm pretty much responsible for the S&W WB rules.
Amber Diceless Player since 1993
OD&D Player since 1975