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Author Topic: In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules  (Read 5954 times)

JesterRaiin

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In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2016, 11:37:59 AM »
A bit of archeology, but to hell with that.

The biggest problem with Amber we've ever had lies in Attributes and vague description of fields they are supposed to encompass.

"Were I to know that Attribute x is responsible for y, I'd bet on different Attribute". "Huh? I did it, because I was sure it's gonna be WARFARE contest." And so on, and so forth...

To deal with this "problem", we tried to simply replace Attributes with some other, more intuitive names, expand their quantity, etc. Sometimes it was Body-Mind-Soul-Conflict, sometimes Strength:raw - Strength:finesse, all in an attempt to make the list more approachable. Results were mixed, no matter what we didn't manage to avoid occasional "are you sure Attr x is best suited for this task?" discussions, still I think the experiment was fun.

Recently, I had the opportunity to participate in a game running "Lords of Gossamer". Same thing happened when one of players declared short string of actions relying on his character's perception and there was a disagreement regarding matching Attribute. We settled for Warfare (as usual), but I think somebody's gonna suggest a slight change in upcoming games.

...providing we're gonna play. The only people interested with this kind of game are usually too busy, to meet often.

Anyway. I think the problem lies in language difference and different (perhaps cultural?) understanding of certain terms and corresponding activities.

Come to think about it, I wonder what Attributes "Olympians" use.
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Evermasterx

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In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2016, 06:18:23 AM »
I'm currently playing LoO, in a year long campaign, and I am realizing that the players don't think in term of stats. No more. It's me, as the GM, who quickly think what stat to use in the specific case. And I don't tell them which one I choose.
I think that in this way the immersion is stronger.
Maybe sometimes it is not completely consistent, but ain't life that way too?
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JesterRaiin

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In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2016, 05:20:04 AM »
Quote from: Evermasterx;877694
I'm currently playing LoO, in a year long campaign, and I am realizing that the players don't think in term of stats. No more. It's me, as the GM, who quickly think what stat to use in the specific case. And I don't tell them which one I choose.
I think that in this way the immersion is stronger.
Maybe sometimes it is not completely consistent, but ain't life that way too?


Yes, it is! After all, we often err when it comes down to assessing what we can, and what is too risky/easy enough. Darwin's Award seems like an excellent proof for that. ;]

I'm also agreeing with "immersion".

Part of the problem is that I rarely play with people who aren't at least veterans of some other RPG, and it might be that they need more time to switch the perception from stats/attributes to the story.

After all, both AMBER and its successors are so much different to "roll initiative" gaming.
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Evermasterx

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In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2016, 05:30:20 AM »
You're right. It's a differente game and takes time to play with the new paradigm. Maybe it is not the right game for something quick. For that I suggest you Everway, if you can put your hands on a copy.
"All my demons cast a spell
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So the book of shadows tell
The weak will always obey the master"

Kamelot, The Spell
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http://evermasterx.altervista.org/blog/tag/lords-of-olympus/

JesterRaiin

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In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2016, 05:51:51 AM »
Quote from: Evermasterx;877881
You're right. It's a differente game and takes time to play with the new paradigm. Maybe it is not the right game for something quick. For that I suggest you Everway, if you can put your hands on a copy.


Thanks, but finding players, especially those willing to play something new, is very hard nowadays. It's far more promising to try and work with what I have at my disposal, overcome problems, rather than introduce different game. ;]

Not that I won't ask whether somebody around owns a copy of Everway. After all, even if you don't play it, you may still find some nice trick, source of inspiration and what not.
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jibbajibba

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In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2016, 08:04:37 PM »
Quote from: JesterRaiin;877887
Thanks, but finding players, especially those willing to play something new, is very hard nowadays. It's far more promising to try and work with what I have at my disposal, overcome problems, rather than introduce different game. ;]

Not that I won't ask whether somebody around owns a copy of Everway. After all, even if you don't play it, you may still find some nice trick, source of inspiration and what not.


just let the players pick there own stats.
At the start of the game say okay we can have 4-6 stats what do we want to use.
I have used the Amber engine for numerous games and if you get the players up front to define what you need to stat out it usually works really well and they totally get what each stat means because they have chosen them. And they usually end up with something similar to RAW. You need to explain that combat, magical power, hit points , and all that will be part of the stats but I have had skills as stats (pilot in a Star Wars game) and in one game we had a whole skill array we auctioned on.
Then issues like 'perception' stop being a problem cos you have an attribute called Perception. AS a GM if there is something required for your game in particular, political contacts or whatever make sure you discuss it at teh same time.
Once its decided though you as the GM have to own it and make sure the guidelines are very clear and precise.
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JesterRaiin

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In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2016, 05:23:49 AM »
Quote from: jibbajibba;878031
Once its decided though you as the GM have to own it and make sure the guidelines are very clear and precise.


A question! Tell me, does that work well with total newcomers? I mean, I know for a fact, that it's a good solution once players play a little and get the overall feeling of the whole game. I've never try that approach straight from the beginning.
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finarvyn

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In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2016, 09:29:10 AM »
Quote from: JesterRaiin;878096
A question! Tell me, does that work well with total newcomers? I mean, I know for a fact, that it's a good solution once players play a little and get the overall feeling of the whole game. I've never try that approach straight from the beginning.
Works fine for new players, not so fine for new Game Masters. Players often come with neat ideas but don't know the rules to a game, so they aren't limited so much by "what you can do" and "what you cannot do" and so I think they adapt well.
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JesterRaiin

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In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2016, 03:18:36 AM »
Quote from: finarvyn;878884
Works fine for new players, not so fine for new Game Masters. Players often come with neat ideas but don't know the rules to a game, so they aren't limited so much by "what you can do" and "what you cannot do" and so I think they adapt well.


That's what I thought. It's not so easy to split the reality on equally important aspects, especially if you don't know what the game is really about, after all.
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jibbajibba

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In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2016, 05:47:07 AM »
Quote from: JesterRaiin;879037
That's what I thought. It's not so easy to split the reality on equally important aspects, especially if you don't know what the game is really about, after all.



Fin's point about experienced GM is the key.
The GM needs to be very clear and precise about what each 'stat' can do. The players take that lead.

So take my Amber Star Wars

It was years ago but I think the stats we came up with were

Combat
Force
Endurance
Pilot
Robotics

Once we defined those it was easy to define a mechanism to run Force powers.
Endurance became your HP.
I told the guys I would set thresholds for technical stuff like piloting or fixing robots but would keep them hidden and that force could boost other stats but sapped Endurance.

Then we played and it worked really well.
Now that might be because I adlib systems all the time and have been playing Amber variants since the books were published but mostly its just common sense.
One of the best elements of the Amber engine is that is just gets out of the way. So if as a GM you can do setting, NPCs, plot and action the actual system is moot.
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JesterRaiin

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In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2016, 08:38:52 AM »
Quote from: jibbajibba;879964
So take my Amber Star Wars


...I spent all this time thinking about Attributes I'd find suitable for SW. And I didn't play SW for long years.

Well done! ;]
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Headless

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In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2016, 09:14:49 PM »
Quote from: jibbajibba;879964
Fin's point about experienced GM is the key.

Now that might be because I adlib systems all the time and have been playing Amber variants since the books were published but mostly its just common sense.


I am becoming more and more convinced that common sense is experience. Weather it's plumbing or cars or role playing. Sometimes tones of experience, perhaps so much experience that you literally can not remember a time when you did not have that experience so you think it is common to all.

I did like the suggestions though.  I am in two games now where it seems half the night is spent looking stuff up in books so when I run next there will be no books.

JesterRaiin

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In Amber DRPG - Where do you diverge in the rules
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2016, 05:01:57 AM »
Quote from: Headless;880519
I am becoming more and more convinced that common sense is experience. Weather it's plumbing or cars or role playing. Sometimes tones of experience, perhaps so much experience that you literally can not remember a time when you did not have that experience so you think it is common to all.


Ditto. Common sense requires some foundation - you perceive certain attributes as more relevant to the game, once you understand what it's about (by default).

I mean, everyone who plays RPGs, no matter where they come from, realizes that combat is a vital part of the majority of games. So is mind, body and social stuff. Yet, to produce some proper set of attributes for any given Amber-based game, one must play it a few times. After all, it won't work that well with a dozen attributes or so, no matter how high level of precision it might deliver...
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