Erick Wujcik's Greatest Error?

[jibbajibba]

I like where you are headed with the line of thought.  Of course, it isn't the first time the notion of an end-user based wiki has happened for Amber.  If you can remove the central control concept and work it more like a true wiki with editors rather than moderators, you will end up with a plethora of content, and as a whole the end result will likely be much better!

For surte you get more content but a wiki has a big draw back you can't print it off as a doc in pdf format and use it at the table.
I am totally into a wiki as a mehtod of collating rules but would like to see those rules formated into a workable doc for players. That means structure etc.
Now ideally you could create this in xml on the fly from the wiki content. So effectively the viewer selects the content they want with whatever rule variants they choose to include and drag n' drop that into their rules doc. the rules doc is made up of base verbiage, illustrations and chapter headings which you then populate with the rules variants. Then you parse the whole doc and get a pdf output that you can print (or even maybe get printed in book format on lulu.. and sent to you in the post)
Now that woudl be sweet at least until the Amber police closed you down...

[Nihilistic Mind]

They would close down a fan-based creation even though there is no money involved whatsoever? I mean, would they close down a fan-fiction site? Or even a forum?

The webcomic is a tricky thing, just because there are ways to get money from it (although I'm sure everyone on here would have loved to read it).

I mean, in the 90's, there were hundreds of websites about people's versions of the rules, even an Amber D20 and stuff like that...

Would offering a free PDF be means to legal recourse on their end? Where are the lawyers when you need 'em? Can someone answer this without speculation?

[SunBoy]

Yes. Intellectual property actually doesn't take into account if you are making money or not. If the property holder doesn't want you to use their "stuff", you can't. That's why DVD come with that "cannot be shown on prisons" and such. The fact being, if you are giving for free something they could potentially charge for, you are stealing. As stupid as it sounds.

[jibbajibba]

We coudl do a game about Merba where hte various dukes of Merba have the ability to transverse layers of reality they call Veils the control of which is governed by walking the Maze. Could star Corwyn and  Meric as antagonistic cousins...

[finarvyn]

I think that there are two distinct threads blending together.
1. What is offiically happening in the Amberverse, and how Erick dropped the ball.
2. What can we as fans do to make Amber resources availible.

As Pundit started this thread, and his emphasis was on #1, I'd suggest that someone start a new thread for #2 so that its content doesn't get lost here in the middle of thread #1. Does that make sense?

I agree with Pundit's fundamental premise for this thread, but it wasn't just the handing off of Amber where Erick failed. I talked with him several times about the kinds of Amber products I'd like to see produced by Phage Press (maps, trump decks, supplements) and he just didn't see the need to make them. Long before he passed, Erick held the keys to Amber and never made real use of them. Jason Durall wrote a Rebma book and Erick didn't like it, yet he never wrote one of his own. Erick was planning a book on his Bright campaign, and clearly this never appeared either. Erick had masterful ideas but had problems with the follow-through.

Not that the Estate has helped much. The only Amber books I see on the bookstore shelves is the Great Book of Amber, which isn't the most convenient to read as it contains the text of ten novels in a single volume. And doesn't even have the short stories! Readers nowadays don't know what Amber is, and the Estate couldn't even support Betancourt finishing his series of prequels. The Estate is also sitting on the IP, allowing time to pass without cultivating new fans.

And back to Pundit's point -- after Phage Press couldn't keep up any sort of publishing schedule and the GoO failure, Amber needed someone to grab the wheel and steer the ship. Even reprints of the existing rulebooks would at least keep Amber visible to gamers. What we didn't need is another group to get the rights and then do nothing.

[Croaker]

Sadly true

[Nihilistic Mind]

As posted to the Amber Mailing List:

Is there any hope that a second edition of Amber will happen?  About a year ago I heard that the guys were straightening out their job situations.  Is this still the hang up or had the estate pulled the plug on the project?

Thanks.  Just curious (and after a few years, a little impatient).

Mea Culpa.

The short answer

No hope whatsoever: it will happen.  Real Life got in the way.  Real Life is now cooperating.

The long answer

Eric and I want to do this right, and that includes money to guarantee the agreement with the estate and for publishing.  We want to keep control of what goes on with this, so we want to finance this ourselves.  Unfortunately, I have moved across country, extensively changed my personal life, and changed jobs, just about as the financial crisis started.  It resulted in me not having income for about 2 1/2 years.  I started a new job three weeks ago and it put me in a place where we can actively move forward with this.  Eric and I are sorting out our commitments and coming up with a schedule.

Edwin

[SunBoy]

When?

[Nihilistic Mind]

Today!

[SunBoy]

Hmm... what you think, then? Any chances, or another red herring?

And why the hell did he wrote "No hope whatsoever: it will happen"? I'm not sure I'd trust a guy with those writing skills...

[Nihilistic Mind]

I think that it's gonna be another few years before we see anything come out anyway... And even then, who knows how good it will be. I'd like to say that my hopes are high, but it's gonna take a while and unless they kick some very, insanely major ass with their book, there will not be an Amber community revival.

I run Amber games at every gaming or hobby con I attend and the attendance for the games are good, but not many people play the game very regularly. The community is shrinking, and let's face it, that's kind of the point of a new edition, a new take on Amber or a new anything, really (even a fucking reprint would be nice!)... GROWING THE AMBER COMMUNITY!!!

[SunBoy]

I never really understood why they didn't do at least a cheap-ass softcover reprint just to keep the ball rolling... that would have been nice.

[Nihilistic Mind]

Agreed.

[RPGPundit]

The next question to ask them, over on that mailing list, should be why they've consistently failed to communicate at all with either the Amber fandom in general, or with this forum (the Official Amber DRPG forum) despite my repeated overtures to them?

RPGPundit

[finarvyn]

...not many people play the game very regularly. The community is shrinking, and let's face it, that's kind of the point of a new edition, a new take on Amber or a new anything...

This is really what bothers me the most -- the fading of the entire franchise.

Roger has been gone for well over a decade and there just don't seem to be very many Zelazny books on bookshelves. As such, younger readers don't really even know who he is or what Amber is all about.

All DicelessByDesign complaints aside, keep in mind that the last significant non-Amberzine publication for Amber Diceless was Shadow Knight in 1993. That's sixteen years since ADRP last saw a supplement. That's a dead game, and sadly Erick didn't find a way to keep it alive. Erick had a major property back in 1991 when the core book came out, becasue his game was the first and only one of its kind. Now there are dozens of diceless wannabe games out there.

By the time the DOA ("Dead On Arrival", or "Dicelss Owners of Amber")  folks actually get their act together, it's possible there won't be a market for the game anymore. Heck, many folks seem to believe that the ADRP ship has already sailed a long time ago.....