Amber with another system

[RPGPundit]

Guardians of Order was a originally the name of a group in his Amber campaign.

Yup.  I don't have BeSM with me, but his SaS D20 version has a "moving beyond D20" section that is a direct copy of Erick's "Ultimate Amber Roleplaying" advice.  If I recall correctly, BeSM and Tri-stat SaS had this too.

RPGPundit

[SunBoy]

You're talkin about Tri-Stat BESM? Body, Mind and Soul for Amber? Mmm. Who would have the higher Body? Gerard, Benedict or Corwin? It just doesn't seem to fit for me. I could give it a shot with True20, though. It's as easy a system as it gets, and although I dislike the damage system, the fatiguing magic idea seems to fit. It would be easy to translate the powers. Trumps would be as Mind-Touch, with the difficulties reduced, and shapeshifting should have a Fortitude ST instead of will... and you are pretty much ready to go. Logrus would be a little more difficult, but surely could be worked out, if I felt like thinking. Some Ars Magica-like magic system could work, too.

[The Yann Waters]

You're talkin about Tri-Stat BESM? Body, Mind and Soul for Amber?

Incidentally, a Finnish RPG called Hiljaisuuden Vangit (diceless and published in '97) uses those attributes, but conceals them completely from the group along with all the other mechanics. The "surveillance reports" filled in by the players ("the Dissidents") during chargen are converted into actual character sheets by the GM ("the Authority") and never shown to anyone else: in this way, one of them might know that her PC graduated from the University of Helsinki with a degree in Theology (since that's written down on the report), but she wouldn't necessarily have any idea what her Mind stat is, or even that it exists.

[James McMurray]

Sounds cool.

[SunBoy]

Yes it does. But still doesn't seem to fit in Amber.

[James McMurray]

I could see Amber without people knowing their exact ranks, although you'd still have a general idea, especially about things like how quickly a certain super-swordsman would make a pie out of your balls. You'd have to totally do away with or majorly revamp the auction of course.

[SunBoy]

No, not at all. Actually, in the original book, when you do the advancements, you don't know the results. So, after a few sessions, if you invested points on attributes (or Advanced Powers), you just don't know. Of course, that doesn't applies to char gen, but the auction is just so cool...

[James McMurray]

Ah cool. Again, my not having read the main book yet is showing.

[RPGPundit]

Yes, this is another great part of the Amber game: after the first advancement, you know what your ranks are, but you don't know what that means in terms of point investment, or what anyone else's ranks are anymore.  It means you don't really look at your stats even, to judge where you're at in the game. You look at what you do.

RPGPundit

[Levi Kornelsen]

Everway is the other most natural choice for running an Amber game, IMO.

I totally, completely agree, here.

[Otha]

...after the first advancement, you know what your ranks are, but you don't know what that means in terms of point investment, or what anyone else's ranks are anymore.  

Two points:

First, unless a LOT of points are being awarded for advancement, you know what the rank numbers are and you know what rungs the other players COULD have advanced to, so you may not know for certain but you probably have a good idea, until several advancements have been made.

Second, why should players have to wait through weeks or months of play for this to happen?  I say that uncertainty about what the other players have should be introduced right from the beginning.  Not only that, even the GM should be unclear about exactly who has what.

[RPGPundit]

Two points:

First, unless a LOT of points are being awarded for advancement, you know what the rank numbers are and you know what rungs the other players COULD have advanced to, so you may not know for certain but you probably have a good idea, until several advancements have been made.

Second, why should players have to wait through weeks or months of play for this to happen?  I say that uncertainty about what the other players have should be introduced right from the beginning.  

Why? Do you have no idea if you could beat your brother in a chess game?
Do you IRL not have a fucking clue about the abilities and weaknesses of the kids you went to school with? OR did you have a pretty clear idea that one of them was more athletic than you, possibly even that one was the best athlete in the class; that one was the smartest at math, that one was the toughest, etc. etc?

The Auction system as it exists is perfect for reflecting a group that has pre-existing family connections. Everyone knows where people really stand out, have an idea about most other things, but have a few things kept hidden from them. And there can always be one or two family members you know nothing about.

Not only that, even the GM should be unclear about exactly who has what.

Now this is just frankly moronic.

RPGPundit

[James McMurray]

Isn't that a little hard to do when they're auctioning off ranks right in front of each other?

[finarvyn]

For me, advancement rate has always been a function of rate of play.

When I have a group that gets together weekly, I tend to slow the advancement down and let the game develop more slowly. When I have a group that gets together infrequently, I tend to speed up the process in order to keep the game fresh. I know this almost seems backwards, but it works well for me.

...even the GM should be unclear about exactly who has what.

:confused: I'll admit that I'm mystified by this comment.

[Otha]

Why are you mystified?

Do you wonder why that's a good thing, or do you wonder how it's possible?