This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.

Author Topic: AMBER. Attributes ranking  (Read 757 times)

Thegrom

  • Newbie
  • *
  • T
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
AMBER. Attributes ranking
« on: March 05, 2020, 10:51:25 AM »
Hi everyone,

Question about ranks. Reading the Rulebook, i just don't get it: i understand that PC's are ranked from 1st to Xth. But how are their ranks evaluated versus known NPCs (i.e. Princes). I understand too that 1st Ranked PC from the younger generation is not the same as 1st rank from elder generation. So it's like trying to compare carrots and tomatoes. Still, how do i handle this when it comes to Merlin or Martin whose generation are the same as PCs?...

I heard that many GMs stick with points. But doesn't it destroy the whole rank mechanics?

Thanks for your enlightment and advices.

LarsonGates

  • Newbie
  • *
  • L
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
AMBER. Attributes ranking
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2020, 04:22:29 PM »
Quote from: Thegrom;1123457
Hi everyone,

Question about ranks. Reading the Rulebook, i just don't get it: i understand that PC's are ranked from 1st to Xth. But how are their ranks evaluated versus known NPCs (i.e. Princes). I understand too that 1st Ranked PC from the younger generation is not the same as 1st rank from elder generation. So it's like trying to compare carrots and tomatoes. Still, how do i handle this when it comes to Merlin or Martin whose generation are the same as PCs?...

I heard that many GMs stick with points. But doesn't it destroy the whole rank mechanics?

Thanks for your enlightment and advices.

Lets take this slowly as there are an number of concepts and issues here.
Firstly ranks are only of significance in a PVP scenario, and potentially within a generation. A snotty nosed 25 year old Amberite rank 1 in warfare in his generation is just going to be taken apart by somebody like Benedict, whose got a couple of thousand years of training and experience.
This is why GMs generally resort to actual points values. The same is true in a broader context. A large number of the Chaos lords are an equal match if not better than a lot of the Amberites (Borell and Suhey for instance) but they don't have ranks.
If you choose to use sub-attributes, as I do, then all the rank does is determine your bonus points that you get to add/apportion to the sub-attributes. Everything there after come down to  a straight points-vs-points contest, the combatant with the higher points wining (everything else being equal).
« Last Edit: March 05, 2020, 04:23:22 PM by LarsonGates »

Thegrom

  • Newbie
  • *
  • T
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
AMBER. Attributes ranking
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2020, 04:08:35 AM »
Thanks, very helpful.

finarvyn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1517
    • View Profile
AMBER. Attributes ranking
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2020, 09:03:04 PM »
As LarsonGates noted, the attribute auction is only intended to rank those in the current generation of Amberites. The assumption is that each GM gets to determine how one generation compares to another.

Of course, it's possible to assume that a point is a point and different generations can directly compare, but the way to do this would be to have different total point values for each generation. For example, characters in Oberon's generation might be around 500 point characters, in Corwin's generation 100-250 point characters, those in the PC's generation maybe 50 point characters. Doing this would give the effect that most older gen characters would be better, but not automatically.
Marv / Finarvyn
Kingmaker of Amber
I'm pretty much responsible for the S&W WB rules.
Amber Diceless Player since 1993
OD&D Player since 1975

Headless

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1864
    • View Profile
AMBER. Attributes ranking
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2020, 09:38:26 PM »
Depends.

How do you feel about the players killing you plot bearing NPCs.  Your special darlings?  If you are ok with that then you need to figure out what kind of an edge the PCs need to beet them.  (How much of an advantage)  

If you don't want your NPCs killed then you don't need to figure anything out.  No matter what the PCs can't beat them.  

Thats second style frustrates the hell out of me but I think thats what Eric advocates.

charis

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
AMBER. Attributes ranking
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2020, 05:46:20 PM »
I've always used the ranking system in my campaign. The only difference is at the end of the player auction, I flip the rank table upside down, starting at 0 as the lowest rank, so I don't have multiple ladders and multiple ranks between the Elders, Next Gen, Chaos, etc.

So, player character Valerie gets 1st in Strength by spending 17 points, Vleran gets 1st in Warfare spending 25 points, etc. Now take the Ranking Table, and make the Human, Chaos, Amber ranks. From here, start at 1 and go up, basing it off points spent at the auction. This keeps the rank system intact, and let's you put in the Elders, Chaosites, etc. based off their points on the ranking system. So Valerie and Vleran will probably be around rank 5 or 8 depending on how many PC's there are. Benedict has a Warfare of 125 points, so he's going to be around Rank 16 or 20, depending on how you structure the ranks higher up the ladder.

At the end of the Auction, I take all the player bids, fill it out, and then set ranks above them after that, usually at 5 point intervals for a few ranks, then 10 point intervals. This creates a complete ladder, and now I can simply add people into the ranks. I find using a spreadsheet which conveniently has a 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc numbers on the left the perfect way to take a quick glance at ranks to determine outcomes during the course of a session, and it's very easy to seed in NPCs where they need to be.