Alternate Sorcery Systems

[Otha]

I can definitely see nearly throwing out sorcery, conjuration, and power words entirely, in a "first series canon" game.

If you take Corwin's use of a spell in Lorraine as a shadow-specific usage that he was able to invoke because of his pre-existing knowledge of the place as a shadow of Avalon, and from that extrapolate that ALL sorcery is shadow-specific, then you don't need to charge points for it at all... it's no different than knowing engineering or science or any other shadow skill.

[Nihilistic Mind]

If you take Corwin's use of a spell in Lorraine as a shadow-specific usage that he was able to invoke because of his pre-existing knowledge of the place as a shadow of Avalon, and from that extrapolate that ALL sorcery is shadow-specific, then you don't need to charge points for it at all... it's no different than knowing engineering or science or any other shadow skill.

This reminds me of a passage in the merlin series. Merlin has a spikard by then and has the urge to summon a spell through the spikard using a distant shadows magic, which in this case involved incantating the right words. (My book is currently unavailable, thus I can't quote it just yet, but it involved getting rid of giant lizards if I recall correctly).
The way it could be interpreted is that magic is so dependent upon the shadow's  laws of physics that an amberite must attune themselves to the local rules of magic... This could be done rather easily as the pattern grants them a certain understanding of how the local shadow functions. They could simply have a feel for it, given their psyche and rudimentary training in sorcery.

The lynchpin system that we know would be used as a fail-proof system (with the right lynchpin, even a magicless shadow would allow the spell to function properly), therefore should be a complex and hard to maintain system. On the other hand, having sorcery could allow for an innate ability to use the local shadow's magic, assuming the character is attuned to its forces (meaning has pattern or logrus or super high psyche) and a character who has spent the points would pick up the local magic system faster than one who hasn't.

This is kind of how I run sorcery, although without creative players sorcery tends to stay pretty blah.

[Otha]

That kind of assumes that sorcery works the same way across all of shadow, doesn't it?  At least on some kind of meta level?

[TonyLB]

It certainly assumes that there is a foundation of skills that is applicable to any local sorcery.  Which would be ... an interesting thought.

You could create a "Technology" power that works the same way, if you think that engineering-type thinking is applicable across different laws of physics.

[Nihilistic Mind]

That kind of assumes that sorcery works the same way across all of shadow, doesn't it?  At least on some kind of meta level?

Not necessarily... Let's say the character is shadow walking, pursuing Mr.BadNPC... They end up in a magicless shadow for the final showdown.
If the character has visited the shadow before, he might be aware of the lack of magical energies or mana on this particular shadow.
If he hasn't, he certainly doesn't know and might try to cast the spell without the correct shadow lynchpin. What would happen then would be the same as attempting to fire standard gunpowder in amber. The ammo is spent but the result is nil.

If the player is clever enough, he'll delay Mr.BadNPC and make the subtle changes required, via the pattern, to change magic to impossible to improbable to possible, then cast the spell. In this case, the character never uses local shadow magic, but his own painstakingly stored spells. Also, note that the spell would still not necessarily function properly, depending on its complexity and effect.
I suppose a character with the Logrus could bring its sign to mind and link to a shadow with the proper magical energies and transfer them via a tendril to power up the spell?

In any case, what I'm trying to say is this: well roleplayed and creative solutions always pay off in this game, and sorcery should be no different.
I just don't think a "heart attack" spell will kill someone with "above human rank" in endurance.
Sorcery is a quick and useful way to make many shadowlings fear you... theatrics and all. It is not a definitive solution to killing an amberite...
Spells that would level a castle might (maybe) kill an amberite, if they haven't sensed powerful magic at work and left in a hurry.
Using Primal Chaos or destroying an entire shadow with Advanced Pattern, now that's the way to go... it's just not subtle

I'm not opposed to an alternative sorcery system, but if anything it should be simplified and freeform, letting the players enjoy it without plaguing the GM with modifiers and numbers too much.

[Arref]

It certainly assumes that there is a foundation of skills that is applicable to any local sorcery.  Which would be ... an interesting thought.

You could create a "Technology" power that works the same way, if you think that engineering-type thinking is applicable across different laws of physics.

Perfectly valid idea. I've done that in con games.

[olivier legrand]

So here is the link :

http://amberway.free.fr/REBMA.html

Just a quick note :

Reading the latest posts on this thread and IRL feedback have given me several ideas I'd like to integrate in my alternate Sorcery rules (and also allowed me to notice a few glaring flaws here and there) so I've temporarily disabled the link to  my SORCERY PDF.I'll upload a revised, reworked (and probably simplified) version of the PDF in a few days (or perhaps weeks, depending on my local Shadow time flows...).

[Nihilistic Mind]

I'll upload a revised, reworked (and probably simplified) version of the PDF in a few days (or perhaps weeks, depending on my local Shadow time flows...).

Very cool! Looking forward to it!

[olivier legrand]

Very cool! Looking forward to it!

I've just finished and uploaded it. The link is working again.

You can access the PDF from the site or directly from the link below :

http://amberway.free.fr/SORCERY.pdf

Consider it a semi-complete draft : it focuses on how Sorcery interacts with Shadows, Pattern, Logrus and Trump - but leaves the area of spell effects & spell design virtually untouched. For this, you'll have to wait a bit - I'm currently trying to put into finalized shape an old idea of mine, a spell system based on Power Words as its basic effects and using various "syntax" elements to boost these effects (spells as "power sentences", if you will).