GM advice with Veteran/Newbie PC group

[RPGPundit]

I let what a person bid sometimes determine parentage (ie. I might be more inclined to make a high-warfare char a son of Benedict) but not always, sometimes I do the reverse. Obviously, anyone who takes Shapeshifting off the bat will have chaos blood.

But as for physical appearance, I usually let the player know who their parent is first (assuming they are going to know that), before they set down the appearance. And in my game, you're not allowed to be a redhead unless you're a child of the redheads (or not of amber blood at all).

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[scottishstorm]

Hey guys (and girls),

I have two players who have been playing with me for a while and I am starting a new campaign involving them and three people who are unfamiliar with Amber.

If you have advice or would like to share past experiences with mixed-groups, please do so.

The good thing is that the three people in question are not new to RPGs and I expect a fairly smooth transition since their gaming style does not seem to differ much from my regular group.

I think it makes for a nice thread though

Two pieces of info that have helped me in the past in respect to players new-to-Amber:

1) Merely suggesting, even insisting, they read the novels may have unpredictable results.  Instead, reward them!  
   Read Nine Princes in Amber (1 character point)
   Reed the entire Chronicles  (an additional character point, for 2 total)
   Read The Merlin Saga (your condolences.  No additional points.  The books might be recommended for additional atmosphere/lore, but... eh)
   Watched The Lion in Winter (1967 version with Peter O'Toole & Katharine Hepburn - excellent movie for atmosphere and a sense of theme)  (+1 character point)

There.  A potential of three character points (or a 3% increase in 'power', assuming 100 point characters).  Many players will go for this.  Regarding the Merlin Saga of books, may who read The Chronicles will read the Merlin stuff anyway.  In fact, this is a decent judgment call on a new player.  If they're doing it just for the points, you can better determine this by their NOT reading the Merlin books.

2) Don't scare them.  In an early DRPG I ran, I made the mistake of over-stressing the treachery, double-dealing, etc. that was a part of the genre.  This resulted with my players trusting no one, staying off by themselves, refusing trump calls and reluctant to get involved.  I questioned one particularly gifted role-player about this sort of behaviour and he told me "You warned me that everyone lies and wants to kill me."  (Or something to that effect)  The game turned out to be a bust, with experienced players quickly grabbing at the fundamental plot hooks and resources while the newbies sat passive or hiding.

[Gothic_Pepsi]

This may be a little off topic, but i am currently in a game and also gming a game with the same players (the game im gming is only a post by post so i dont have a huge workload ) and two of the roleplayers are like robots, you know cold killing machines that dont think. any ideas on how to bring this subject up to allow them to be better roleplayers? i see it as a delicate subject but that could just be becuase ive had a bad experience with a bad role player (he aggrivated a situation and npc went to fight back he said 'as my right as a roleplayer i refuse to roleplay this situation' and he started crying when someone said that it was his own mediocre roleplaying that got him there in the first place)

they arent bad roleplayers, but they just need to express more emotion, they are fun to play with other then that.

[RPGPundit]

Simple: teach them the virtues of sadism. Making people suffer horribly is more fun than just killing them.

RPGPundit

[Klaus]

they arent bad roleplayers, but they just need to express more emotion, they are fun to play with other then that.

Use humor. Many people are reluctant to invest emotionally in anything their character does, for fear it will be used against them. They will be more likely to invest emotionally in an NPC if they enjoy the NPC's presence. They're also less likely to deliberately avoid acting emotionally, unlike with dramatic scenes, where they fear any reaction may be used against them.

Simple: teach them the virtues of sadism. Making people suffer horribly is more fun than just killing them.

RPGPundit

That only matters if they're already emotionally invested in the NPC and their relationships, in which case he probably wouldn't have this problem.

[Gothic_Pepsi]

thanks for the advice guys ill be sure to use it in our next session.

[scottishstorm]

Use humor. Many people are reluctant to invest emotionally in anything their character does, for fear it will be used against them. They will be more likely to invest emotionally in an NPC if they enjoy the NPC's presence. They're also less likely to deliberately avoid acting emotionally, unlike with dramatic scenes, where they fear any reaction may be used against them.



That only matters if they're already emotionally invested in the NPC and their relationships, in which case he probably wouldn't have this problem.

Great points, Klaus.  Here's another to add to the mix:  Provide your players with "something cool" attributed to their character.  It might be an outstanding fight scene, unearthed discovery or quotable verbal fencing.  Give them this significance; something that that cannot simply be repeated with just any character other than their own!

[Gothic_Pepsi]

Great points, Klaus.  Here's another to add to the mix:  Provide your players with "something cool" attributed to their character.  It might be an outstanding fight scene, unearthed discovery or quotable verbal fencing.  Give them this significance; something that that cannot simply be repeated with just any character other than their own!

true that, ive played previous games, not amber the warhammer fantasy RPG, where the gm gave out bonus points to the best roleplayer of the night, then the second best would get a few points aswell, if they were still good etc. i was thinking somthing like that to offer my players. it only just jogged my memory then, but then again this might upset some of the other players, and may cause them to quit or worse, make it horrible for everyone else.

[scottishstorm]

true that, ive played previous games, not amber the warhammer fantasy RPG, where the gm gave out bonus points to the best roleplayer of the night, then the second best would get a few points aswell, if they were still good etc. i was thinking somthing like that to offer my players. it only just jogged my memory then, but then again this might upset some of the other players, and may cause them to quit or worse, make it horrible for everyone else.

One potential difficulty with that is it can come back to bite you. ("I can't play this stupid character.  Can't get into him!  Now, Larry's character is even MORE powerful due to the damn rp reward.  I hate this game!")

[RPGPundit]

Yeah, I'm not sure I'd be too in favour of visible RP awards in Amber; its contrary to how experience is supposed to work, for starters.

In any case, I've found that developing sadism is a good way for someone to gain more of a connection to their character. When they realize they have a license to be a real machiavellian bastard, that encourages people.

RPGPundit

[scottishstorm]

Yeah, I'm not sure I'd be too in favour of visible RP awards in Amber; its contrary to how experience is supposed to work, for starters./QUOTE]


That said, some sort of "RP award" that doesn't directly contribute to points may be doable.  Like maybe a temporary point of "Good stuff", or some people use some form of "plot points".

In any case, I've found that developing sadism is a good way for someone to gain more of a connection to their character. When they realize they have a license to be a real machiavellian bastard, that encourages people./QUOTE]

Yep.  Some of my favourite moments are bastard-like.
Even silly petty stuff has its charm.  I think back to when my character, Job (son of Jurt & Julia and bad stuff out the wazoo) spitefully shaved Random's favourite horse... in the dead of winter because Random was being, well, a prick to Job.  The animal died (this was not intended, but... then again.. BAD STUFF, y'know?) and this set a string of unfortunately events in motion that had Job running for his life.  It was pure silly, and a BLAST to play.  Everyone had fun.  There were over-the-top consequences and it became a signature moment for the character.

[Ivanhoe]

they arent bad roleplayers, but they just need to express more emotion, they are fun to play with other then that.

I think I prevented something akin to robot-player during the character creation session of a PC. Understanding that the object creation rules were ripe for munchkinness, he began to design the Armor of Ultimate-I-Am-Tougher-Than-Thou : an animated exosqueleton completely covering his body and able to open in order to jump in or out of it. Of course I could just say no, but it showed that we could do with a bit of discussion about how the game would work. I asked him a bit about how he proposed to use it. He wanted to wear it 24/24.

"Even during official dinners ? Do you realize how ridiculous you'll look like in front of other people ? Worse, how coward you'll look ?"
"Do you really believe you'll prevent an assassination attempt with this ?"
"Do you think it will provide you with an advantage in combat in a lot of situations ?"
"Who else wears an armor all the time and is considered like a cold brutal guy ? Julian."
I concluded that it would cost ten points and the nickname 'Tincan', that I was okay with that but that all the consequences were there. He thought a bit about that and instead opted for something quite more Amberish : a secret police, a good reputation in the courts of Amber and an official position. He didn't play very emotionally but the other players would joke on his character's stiffness, and being a son of Benedict, it worked fairly well

He ended up being appreciated by the group because his quest for power made him take inconsiderate risks that often amounted to him being a guinea pig for the others.

"There shouldn't be magic here ! Who modified this shadow ?" "Whoever it is, let's use it ! [jumps out of the plan, casts a levitating spell, and begins to cast fireballs after fireballs]"
"What strange pattern ! I wonder if it works." "I'll walk it !" (this one ended fairly bad for him)

[RPGPundit]

Excellent, Ivanhoe!

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