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Author Topic: 1st rank Attribute abilites  (Read 1301 times)

Bird_of_Ill_Omen

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1st rank Attribute abilites
« on: February 06, 2010, 11:01:27 PM »
I'm getting ready to run an Amber game, and I wanted to do something to make having the 1st rank in an Attribute stand out even more than it already does (just cause I want to playtest it and see how it effects the game) -- to the 1st and 2nd ranked characters I'm going to give special abilities that the other characters won't have.  What I could use is some help from you guys with a little brainstorming on what those special abilities might be.

Here's the list I've been working on already:
-----------------------------------
PSYCHE - 2nd RANK
sense power emenations
know when people are talking about you nearby
learn signatures of mental contact (such as knowing who's trumping you)
see ripples in shadow (recent shadowpaths or recent changes in shadow)

PSYCHE - 1st RANK (includes 2nd rank abilities, plus...)
photographic memory
establish mental link by eye contact alone
flashes of insight (GM gives hints to help make connections for the player)
-----------------------------------
STRENGTH - 2nd RANK
unable to be hurt by anyone of Amber strength or less (unless armed)

STRENGTH - 1st RANK (includes 2nd rank abilities, plus...)
unbreakable grip
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ENDURANCE - 2nd RANK
???

ENDURANCE - 1st RANK (includes 2nd rank abilities, plus...)
regenerating lost body parts
-----------------------------------
WARFARE - 2nd RANK
use any weapon like an expert with no training
knows an opponent’s attack a moment before he executes it

WARFARE - 1st RANK (includes 2nd rank abilities, plus...)
unhindered by blindness or deafness or off-handedness
use anything as a deadly weapon
-----------------------------------

Hopefully if you guys can help brainstorm a number of possibilities, I can then pick TWO abilities at each level (which means the 2nd rank guy gets to do two things that those below him can't, and the 1st ranked guy gets to do four extra things).  I'm thinking that for the auction I'm going to let the players know that winning 1st rank means getting some extra abilities beyond what others can do, but I'm not going to tell them specifically what the abilities are -- one reason is so that the winner can keep those abilities a secret if so wished, and secondly I think it'd be more fun to discover the abilities during gameplay.

Thanks for any ideas anyone can offer.

In case anyone's wondering:  none of the players are on this forum, or have ever played Amber, or have read any of the books.  So should be interesting.

Drascus

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1st rank Attribute abilites
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2010, 11:12:33 PM »
Are these abilities the players will have, or the very top in that attribute, including Elders?

Because if it's the players, what happens when Psyche goes for 33 and 32?

And then what happens when both those people buy psyche up?

Does the top person just get to keep those abilities?  Do they both have them now?  What if the Rank 2 abilities are better than the Rank 1 abilities in gameplay?

It seems like you might be better off creating a 15-25point minor power that is heavily dependent on the attribute in question.

Edit:
I see that the top person gets the 2nd place abilities, and that it's the players, so those questions are answered.

Still, if you've got your psyche auction going 33, 32, 31, how do you justify the #3 person having no abilities with just 1 point less spent, when you're giving amazing abilities to the two people above him or her?  If you've established that all you have to have is a 33 psyche to have that stuff, shouldn't all the Elders have it?  What happens when someone buys up to rank 1- with advancement sessions, or even with unspent points after the auction is over?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 11:16:36 PM by Drascus »

Bird_of_Ill_Omen

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1st rank Attribute abilites
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2010, 12:28:55 AM »
Those are good questions.  Here are some cop-out answers:

Quote from: Drascus;359537

Still, if you've got your psyche auction going 33, 32, 31, how do you justify the #3 person having no abilities with just 1 point less spent, when you're giving amazing abilities to the two people above him or her?


If the #3 person wants those nifty new abilities so bad, she should keep bidding so she gets them!  If she doesn't want to keep bidding, then I guess the amazing abilities aren't worth it to her.  Or maybe she'll get really jealous that she didn't win!  Perfect!

Quote from: Drascus;359537

If you've established that all you have to have is a 33 psyche to have that stuff, shouldn't all the Elders have it?


In this game, the players will be children of Oberon, so there aren't any elders.  I'm planning on have Benedict, Eric, Caine, Flora and Brand as NPC's, with the players filling out the rest of the family.  I know, I know, Benedict has to be the #1 warfare guy, and Brand's an awesome psyche guy, certainly #1 or #2, so how do I figure that in with the PC's new attribute abilities?  I'll...figure something out... My leaning right now is that Brand will be the 1.5 rank psyche guy and have those 2nd rank abilities as well.  Benedict's going to feel like an "elder" to the PC's, so I figure he'll be in a separate league from the other princes, but yeah, he'll have the #1 warfare abilities too.

I'm going to include NPC's Eric, Caine, Flora and Brand in the bidding auction, too...which should be kinda crazy and potentially dangerous, but I'm a risk taker and I'm gonna see how it goes.

Quote from: Drascus;359537

What happens when someone buys up to rank 1- with advancement sessions, or even with unspent points after the auction is over?


THIS is a really good question that I haven't thought about enough.  Do I have to give them advancement points? :)  Maybe if a character catches up to rank 2 (or even rank 1) then they'll learn how to do what the other character does and get those abilities, too.  So even if a character falls below rank 2 during advancement, they still keep those abilities they won in the bidding auction -- so you can have have two guys with an unbreakable grip, and they'll never let go of each other.  Isn't that sweet?

So what do you say, Drascus?  Any ideas for high attribute perks?  I could use some ideas for Endurance especially...

Drascus

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« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2010, 05:17:13 AM »
Well, you will probably want to give out advancement points at some stage, if you want your players to continue playing.  One of the key aspects of people's power-fantasies for role-playing games is progression.  It's pretty important.

I'm a little too tipsy to think of any Endurance perks at the moment but I'll think about it.  The regen thing you have now is supposedly available to anyone w/ an Amber or better Endurance.

Just so you know, for Psyche, Strength, and Warfare you have abilities in the 2nd rank that are better than what the first rank gets in every case.  I know that the first rank ALSO gets those things, but they are pretty sweet and seem more like a first rank thing to me.

Psyche - I would straight-up reverse the perks you're using.  The 2nd rank ones are all superior to the 1st rank ones.  Also, they're pretty powerful.  The stuff you're giving out to first rank people, by combining those two rank perks is imo worth a 15 point minor power.

Strength - Again, reverse those perks.  Being immune to strength attacks from people w/ less than Amber rank is amazing. In fact, it is so good I'm pretty sure I could break your game with it, given the right character build and about 4 sessions or so.

Warfare - Reverse the knowing an opponent's attack and use anything as a deadly weapon.  Warfare is already about using anything as a deadly weapon, and knowing an opponent's attack is again pretty sick.  I might be able to break a game with that one too.

I'm not explicitly warning you off from these things, if you want to roll with them, roll with them.  In my first long-term Amber game I let people take the rules as-written, and roll with them.  I let someone make a Ghostwheel style construct (supported by the rules!) that eventually allowed them to wipe out an entire House of Chaos with a crazy massive Pattern Sorcery spell.  

It was a game about letting people run wild and seeing where the rules would break, and where they were okay.  So instead of warning you off, what I'm saying is, be prepared for people to create invincible characters.  If they're new to Amber, it might take them 10 or 15 sessions, but with the perks you're giving out, I think you can make invincible characters, or at least ones that are seriously problematic.

Be prepared for that, as much as you can, and have plans in place to try and deal with it, roll with the punches.

The idea is, as long as you're giving your players rope, give them ENOUGH rope.

To hang themselves with.

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1st rank Attribute abilites
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2010, 12:06:34 AM »
I don't know about this. I've found that usually, being 1st ranked is already more than its own reward.

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Croaker

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1st rank Attribute abilites
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2010, 04:23:25 PM »
Quote from: Drascus;359537
Still, if you've got your psyche auction going 33, 32, 31, how do you justify the #3 person having no abilities with just 1 point less spent, when you're giving amazing abilities to the two people above him or her?

Well, that's what you get for being picky about that 1 point you could have spend. Too bad for you.

Remember wujcik's introduction to ranks. That 1 point makes the 1st... The First. Someone special.

Of course, if Amber stats wasn't supposed to use ranks, but points, things would be different.

What I'd do is give those abilities freely to the 1st and 2nd players, and allow the other players to buy them for, say, 5-10 points per ability, when they reach the requisite rank.
Like, when 3rd goes up one rank, he can buy the 2nd abilities at 5pt/ability. When he goes up another rank, he can also buy the 1st abilities.
That way, you resolve the progression problem, even if the 2nd player gets before the 1st, while still giving that special advantage to your top players
 

Drascus

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1st rank Attribute abilites
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2010, 05:34:52 PM »
The first rank is already special.  You can beat everyone below you.

I think this system is going to either A: Make people freak out over the auction and build crazy unbalanced characters that have 80 points in a single attribute, just so they could win.

Or B: be irritated that something at the very start of the game is putting them 10-20 points behind the other players 40 sessions later.

IMO it's a bad idea.  If you're going to do it, you really want to think ahead on how to address the extra unfairness of it when that starts to grate on your players.

Croaker

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1st rank Attribute abilites
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2010, 06:50:03 PM »
OTOH, notes how erick wujcik himself introduced these "special abilities" way back then. Ok, he wasn't God, but he visibly didn't consider this to be so unbalanced, even if it was clear some characters could have them while others wouldn't.

As for the First, it also depends if you consider this to be an unamovible place or not.
 

Drascus

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1st rank Attribute abilites
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2010, 08:40:04 PM »
Quote from: Croaker;360411
OTOH, notes how erick wujcik himself introduced these "special abilities" way back then. Ok, he wasn't God, but he visibly didn't consider this to be so unbalanced, even if it was clear some characters could have them while others wouldn't.

As for the First, it also depends if you consider this to be an unamovible place or not.


If nobody below #1 and #2 in an attribute can break into those ranks, ever, and #2 can never get past #1, that makes the game a lot less interesting, imo.  Some of the best situations in Amber come out of a fierce fight for the top in an attribute.

Especially when the #1 holder runs into something they really, really need to buy, and have to choose between that and putting the attribute at the top of their list.

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1st rank Attribute abilites
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2010, 10:29:43 PM »
I've never ever run a game where I considered 1st rank unmoveable, but I do consider it difficult to move.

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