I'm looking for some insight into the "implicit setting" of AD&D. This is the setting implied by the rules as presented in the DMG, PHB, and Monster Manual.

For example, this blog post from Don't Split the Party, about how the AD&D psionics rules and certain spells cause nasty things for PC's, and thus affect what the campaign setting is like.

I want to learn more about AD&D's implicit setting. So if ya got insights, links to good blog posts, threads where people talked about this already, etc please post.

Cheers!

(insert your deity here) wept. Not this damn thing again?

I've heard the implied setting for 1E AD&D was Greyhawk.

Quote from: Omega;1096106Not this damn thing again?

Dude. Let a brotha sate his curiosity. If it's been talked through so much, surely there's a thread or two. Maybe toss me a URL.

AD&D's implied apocalypse setting and domain game index:

https://hillcantons.blogspot.com/2015/05/ad-apocalypse-and-domain-game-annotated.html

Quote from: Cloyer Bulse;1096120AD&D's implied apocalypse setting and domain game index:

Thank you kindly.

I think this is pretty much looking at a painting of a seascape and seeing faces sort of thing. If you think there is any sort of implicit setting in 1e, you're probably imagining it.

With that said, if you compare it to the BECMI rules, there are some obvious key differences:  Like how Potions of Longevity eventually catch up to you in AD&D, while in BECMI they don't. This means there aren't 1000s of ageless magic-users

Crom does not weep!

I personally love analysis of how the system sets up an implicit setting, sometimes contradicting the game's actual setting.

I've read some solid analysis of Traveller's implicit setting (I believe done by one of our members), and I've read OD&D implicit setting discussions and I definitely want to build a setting using those ideas as they sound like fun.

Quote from: JeremyR;1096124I think this is pretty much looking at a painting of a seascape and seeing faces sort of thing. If you think there is any sort of implicit setting in 1e, you're probably imagining it....

The point is to avoid that sort of analysis. There are certain unavoidable realities that the inhabitants of the game world must contend with, assuming the rules as written. You can look at a rock and see faces, or you can analyze the silicate content and texture in order to try and figure out where and under what conditions it was formed.

QuoteAssume your psionic individual lives in a village near a city in the heart of the kingdom on the plains (this is all to minimize the odds of an encounter). We will also assume she only uses her psionics during the day (also reducing her odds of an encounter) but that the powers she has [Detection of Good or Evil, ESP, and Precognition] are how she pays the bills as a fortune teller and, therefore, something she uses almost every day. With minimal encounter odds (1 in 20 for location, 1 check during the day for terrain, etc.) this means that she will have 4.5 encounters a year that*could*be from the psionic chart so, if she is careful, she will probably have 2 psionic encounters a year. We'll be generous and reduce this to one psionic encounter per year. What does that mean?
* Bluntly, she's dead. Oh, sure, the encounter might be with a coatl who merely pauses for a moment on the Astral Plane to say 'huh, a psionic' before he swims along, or it might be yellow mold or tritons or something sure. But it will probably be an encounter with a brain mole, intellect devourer, cerebral parasite, or worse. Sometimes much,*much*worse. Demon prince worse. So, over the years, the odds of her being dragged screaming into the abyss approach 100%.

In other words, the various detection spells are not going to be used very often by NPCs in the implied AD&D setting.

QuoteOne - the world is dangerous: as I have said before, there are hideous things from beyond the walls of reality waiting to drag you screaming from your beds.
  Two, but a bit more subtle - divinations have consequences: whether the notice of a devil in the astral plane or that your target notices the viewing point of your crystal ball, the fact is that divinations are not telescopes or spy satellites, there is a sort of interaction possible and they are not passive but active and noticeable.

Quote from: JeremyR;1096124I think this is pretty much looking at a painting of a seascape and seeing faces sort of thing.

...and then those faces begin to speak!!

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;1096119Dude. Let a brotha sate his curiosity. If it's been talked through so much, surely there's a thread or two. Maybe toss me a URL.

Its come up in other threads with the usual suspects here trying to use it as "proof!" that D&D is misogynist, pro-colonial, racist, whatever-the-fuck-insanity-of-the-week, really allways a story game!

But sure. Lets dance this dance again.

From the rules for structure/population distribution alone you can see that this is a land in ruin. There are ruins everywhere, or occupied by monsters or evil NPC, bandits, and so on.
Using the system to populate a 10x10 area about the size of Ohio I got around 10 sites. 2 were castles held by monsters bandits, evil NPCs. One was a ruined keep, and the remaining 7 were 2 large cities, 3 towns and a pair of little spots with a house or farm or such and that was about it.

Another implied factor is that all demi-humans and orcs and goblinoids are actually just variations on the human baseline as they are all compatible and can crossbreed. Either that or some magic permeates the land that fasciliates rampant crossbreeding.

Bemusingly another implied element from the rules is that at least in humans there is no sexual dimorphism. Male and female stats cap equally for all classes except the fighter where male percentile STR can exceed female STR. Able to lift about 200lb more at the absolute limits. This could suggest that there is a very different training regime or very different prefferences. The disparity is less if you ignore the top end male STR limits due to how vanishingly rare it will be to ever see. Only about a 50lb difference then.

Humans can get along with freaking anyone and any THING! No really. You'll find humans hanging out with gnolls, goblins, orcs, demons, and everything else. And really that goes for every other race and monster. They can and will band together and get along just fine. And sometimes seem to be stronger for it. This may be in part because alignment in AD&D is very fluid and so it is easy to end up with monsters with attitudes way outside the norm.

Magic is overall both taxing on the caster, and only so much can be stored/memorized in the body or an object. Even many creatures with natural magic casting powers as even these oft have some spells they can cast only so many times.

The baseline environment is apparently pretty mild overall as there are no indicators of major storms or extreems of temperature change from seasons. Are there seasons at all? Does this imply the default setting location lower down towards the equator?

Giant Spiders and ants dont really give a fuck about the square cube law. Same for any given flyer and aerodynamics. This might imply gravity is less? A smaller world? Or a less dense world? Or that size and flight is being assisted by magic.

Knowledge has been lost. Apparently alot of knowledge has been lost. Magic users have to research or go out and find new spells. Or pry them from the cold dead hands of other wizards. But there is also some sort of movement to restore things as there are people taking on apprentices and teaching them the basics before sending them out into the world. This actually may mirror some crafting communities even today where they will teach you some of the basics and then leave you to your own devices in the hopes someone will discover new techniques.

And more.

There.

Happy now?

Quote from: Omega;1096156Happy now?

Far more than I expected, thank you!

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;1096176Far more than I expected, thank you!

And this is why it always pays to take the time to answer questions like this instead of getting instantly hostile because someone else ended up using similar lines to push an agenda.

If you want to grow the OSR, you have to be willing to talk about the OSR and its roots.

I was toying with the idea of deriving a setting from 1e but for 5e, but then also interested in how weird things where when you take into account the monsters from the Monster Manual.

An encounter with elves can be a really huge encounter, with multiple, leveled elves and many wearing magical armor. Where is that magical armor coming from? If it can work for other species, why aren't more people and monsters hunting elves for their armor? Where are the elves that can actually make magical armor, given level limitations for non-humans?

There's discussion about this on the 1E forums.  I'll try to dig up some threads later tonight.