Enough of a failure that Steve Jackson Games is doing a kickstarter to reprint it.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/warehouse23/powered-by-gurps-dungeon-fantasy-monsters-2-and-ga?ref=hero_thanks

For those who don't know, the SJG Report To The Stakeholders declared the DFRPG a failure despite funding it was late and over budget.

So now, they're doing a book of monsters to see if there's enough demand to reprint the book.  On the one hand I'm thrilled, I really am, like many I had high hopes for this game and as a GURPS fan, having it declared a failure indicated that GURPS support would continue to decline.

It turns out the game has some legs.  It's a really nice little boxed set.  About twice the complexity I'd have gone with but they clearly opted to make a box that appealed to existing fans than one to appeal to new fans.  Given the fans are the ones who back kickstarter that makes some sense anyhow.

Anyhow, it's out there and who doesn't want more zany monsters like carnivorous flying squirrels?  They haven't revealed what the monsters are going to be but there's a fair bit of craziness in the core game.  Better hope those skeletons aren't druager.

I'm always frusterated with SJG and their approach to GURPS.  I understand that they know the business and have the numbers but I'd really like to see many existing books back in print, Magic, Martial Arts, High Tech, Low Tech, Bio Tech.  Sure I've got all of those, but I'm a retailer and I can't put the books on the shelf.  I'd also like to see Vehicles for 4e and a decent Bestiary.  A GURPS History book would be pretty cool too.

Oh well, if you're a GURPS Fan, the sword of Damocles is once again over our heads and it's time to pony up some more cash in hopes of new things to come.

I picked up the boxed set on the recommendation of a friend that loves GURPS. I looked through it a few times before really digging in in-depth. Now I can say that it is indispensable...for holding up the books on a shelf that I haven't quite filled yet. For gaming, I'll probably never open the box again.

I just hope it can make the $40K goal. I'm on the fence. I had hoped this would be a real bestiary, not just 22 more monsters. No idea what SJ Games is thinking. They need to stop the weird licensed properties and the endless PDF trickle, and do a new edition.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1077932I picked up the boxed set on the recommendation of a friend that loves GURPS. I looked through it a few times before really digging in in-depth. Now I can say that it is indispensable...for holding up the books on a shelf that I haven't quite filled yet. For gaming, I'll probably never open the box again.

You made my post for me. I'm glad I have the boxed set and GM screen, but I'll never play it. For what it's worth, I still prefer 3rd edition basic set, anyway. The perfect single book for endless gritty fantasy.

Why does SJG need $40k to make one book?

Quote from: David Johansen;1077929I'm always frusterated with SJG and their approach to GURPS.  I understand that they know the business and have the numbers but I'd really like to see many existing books back in print, Magic, Martial Arts, High Tech, Low Tech, Bio Tech.  Sure I've got all of those, but I'm a retailer and I can't put the books on the shelf.  I'd also like to see Vehicles for 4e and a decent Bestiary.  A GURPS History book would be pretty cool too.

The fundamental problem that it is about manpower. They have overhead and have to make sure Munchkin and the other top sellers bring in the money. At the same time they have to do new things because Munchkin is not going to last forever or at the least it wouldn't be wise on it lasting forever.

Because of the lack of manpower, GURPS languished just enough that it drifted towards catering to the existing fans. Now they resort to firing "magic" bullets occasionally to see if any will reignite GURPS enough to bump up it priority. Dungeon Fantasy was the latest. And it wasn't the magic bullet. Not a unmitigated disaster but enough of an issue that there was no reason for them to bump the priority.

But then comes along Douglas Cole and his kickstarters. The response to Douglas Cole efforts has convinced them to try again with DF Monsters 2.

I been commenting on this situation for over a decade  It great that they Douglas Cole a shot and he is making the most of it both in quality and enthusiasm. But the only thing that will permanently fix GURPS situation is to loosen up even more and allow for more 3PP in a way that doesn't suck up their time in legal. Which if you guessed it is also manpower limited. Doug is GURPS author with a sterling reputation who did well with his Dragon Heresy kickstarter and with its production values so that give him enough of an edge when it came for asking about a 3PP GURPS license.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1077947Why does SJG need $40k to make one book?

It's a dual purpose kickstarter. They're making a new product and doing a reprint of the Dungeon Fantasy boxed set. I'd have probably done it as a straight-up reprint kickstarter with new product as stretch goals, but . . . whatevs.

And who called Dungeon Fantasy a failure? It's not my bag, but it apparently did well enough that they keep churning out more expansions. Hardly seems like a failure to me.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1077947Why does SJG need $40k to make one book?

Overhead and the requirements of distributions and print runs.

Quote from: Aglondir;1077938I just hope it can make the $40K goal. I'm on the fence. I had hoped this would be a real bestiary, not just 22 more monsters. No idea what SJ Games is thinking. They need to stop the weird licensed properties and the endless PDF trickle, and do a new edition.

Just another "magic" bullet that will ultimately fail. They need diversity in how GURPS is approached. They are only going to get it through an open 3PP program. The problems are all ones of presentation.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1077932I picked up the boxed set on the recommendation of a friend that loves GURPS. I looked through it a few times before really digging in in-depth. Now I can say that it is indispensable...for holding up the books on a shelf that I haven't quite filled yet. For gaming, I'll probably never open the box again.

Why that? I am not looking for a debate on the merit. My basic argument has been the presentation of GURPS. Which may or may not be a correct guess. So I am curious about the details of your conclusion.

So, I strongly agree that opening GURPS up to third party support would be great.  I've dabbled in writing a retro-clone or alternative GURPS but honestly, I don't see much point in doing so beyond the intellectual exercise.  Also, if you ask three people what they think GURPS should look like, you'll get at least three different answers.  There's a reason there's so many different D&D retro-clones.  It's a proliferation of standards issue.

I don't know, it really stuck in my craw when they declared DFRPG a failure.  The fans really stepped up to make it happen.  So, I don't know, I've got this mix of gloating, and frustration, and happiness and it's confusing.  I notice they never step up and say fourth edition was a failure.

I strongly agree with Ester that the format of fourth edition is very unfriendly to new users.  I think it's mechanically better than third and I think the books are lovely.

I just find SJG business plan confusing to say the least. Fans were asking for Gurps Vehicles 4E to be released they gave the fans Gurps Mars Attacks and Discworld. The fans made DFRPG what is and it's a failure. Full disclosure I'm not a fan of DFRPG in general. I wonder though if maybe SJG is done with Gurps and is trying to kill it off. Honestly I just do not know what to make of how they are handling Gurps.

You are assuming there is a coherent plan, rather than just the day-to-day whims of a geek with a bar fridge full of coca-cola next to his desk

I liked some of what 4e changed from 3e. But I haven't played any GURPS since 4e came out. I have all the GURPS books (except the last 2 or 3 that they published), and only one of their PDFs.

Quote from: estar;1077959Why that? I am not looking for a debate on the merit. My basic argument has been the presentation of GURPS. Which may or may not be a correct guess. So I am curious about the details of your conclusion.

I have a number of other fantasy games that I like better for varying reasons. I can always find players for D&D (5e), I like the world flavor of Earthdawn and WFRP (2e or 4e), and I can even go away from the usual with Conan (2d20) or Realms of Terinoth (FFG's Genesys), and if I only want "part-time fantasy" then there's the Asyle Cosm of TORG Eternity. DF doesn't really excel at any particular thing that I'm looking for in fantasy games, and that's really all it's set up to do.