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Author Topic: Running OSR modules with 5e: What to watch out for?  (Read 1515 times)

Robyo

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Running OSR modules with 5e: What to watch out for?
« on: July 17, 2018, 05:59:17 AM »
I got tapped to run some D&D 5e for a friend's teenage son and some of his pals. All newbies apparently. They've already messed around with the Starter Box, so that module is right out.

While searching for (free) beginner style modules I happened upon the many Basic Fantasy RPG's well-reviewed modules. I've decided either Morgansfort, Chaotic Caves, or Monkey Isle would be fun. The adventures are all free to download, and dead tree versions are super cheap on Amazon or LULU.

So what should I be aware of in the conversion? Swapping out monsters from the Monster Manual shouldn't be too tough. I suppose any unique/original monsters can be refactored using encounter rules in the DMG.

Do I have to rebuild all the traps? Should I cut back significantly on treasure dispensation? What's a reliable way to convert saving throws? Are morale rules super important?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

spon

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Running OSR modules with 5e: What to watch out for?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2018, 06:27:42 AM »
OSR modules tend to have large amounts of monetary treasure - something that was needed for training, building castles, maintaining Hirelings, etc. So you may want to cut down the amount of monetary treasure (divide by 5 or 10?) Some modules gave out magic willy-nilly, as magic weapons were required to hit certain creatures. In 5th ed these sorts of creatures take less damage, rather than being impossible to hit. Maybe replace some of the permanent magic items with single/limited use/weaker items? So replace a +1 bow with 10 +1 arrows. Morale rules are pretty important in OSR - as is allowing "Out-of-the-box" solutions. Defeating 100 Orcs would rarely come down to combat to the last PC/orc.

Traps are pretty simple to fix - Save or Die is replaced by "Take XD6 damage, save for half). I use 2D6 base, with increments of +2D6 per "-1" to the save. Save and/or locate DCs Are usually around 15, but really nasty/difficult ones could be up to 20. Poisons can also give the poisoned condition if you're feeling that way inclined.
   
So an OSR poison trap (save at -1 or die) would be DC 15 to locate. If triggered, the victim would need to make a DC 15 CON save, taking 4D6 on  a failed save, 2D6 on a successful one.

S'mon

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Running OSR modules with 5e: What to watch out for?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2018, 06:28:45 AM »
"Hello, my friend! If you seek knowledge about mighty Talos er running OSR in 5e, you have most certainly come to the right person." :D

Those BFRPG adventures are all great yup and very useable in 5e.

Things to be aware of:

5e is a loose enough system that you don't really need to worry about balance any more than you would when running an OSR system. Players should know that running away is an option, and the GM should normally make this possible, possibly with some Athletics and/or Stealth checks to evade pursuit.

1. Generally you should just use the 5e monster stats. Some 5e monsters are a bit tougher than in OSR, eg orcs, some are weaker, eg manticores. But overall it works fine.
2. For monsters that don't exist in 5e, you can either use the closest 5e equivalent (tweaking a bit, especially any special powers) or convert the stats. For converting BFRPG to 5e I recommend:

AC: deduct 1 from the BFRPG AC since it starts at 11.
Hit Points: Usually doubling the BFRPG/OD&D hp works
Damage: Usually should be about double BFRPG number. You can often get this by keeping the BFRPG damage dice and adding an attribute bonus
CR: I pretty much eyeball CR, but halving the hit dice probably gives a reasonable number.
Attributes: One pretty much has to eyeball these with reference to 5e norms, eg low level monsters typically have a +1 to +3 attribute bonus for their attack attribute, mid level +4 to +6 (NPCs usually cap at +5/attribute 20), high level +7 to +9, rarely +10 (needs a 30 Attribute).
Attack Score & Magic Save DC can be calculated off CR & Attribute bonus, the totals should typically be around +4/DC 12 at low level, +7/DC 15 at medium level, +10/DC 18 at high level.

Monster numbers: 5e monsters can be more dangerous in large groups, though I've not found it a big enough issue to worry about generally. Most BFRPG adventures don't need numbers adjusting IMO, but Chris Gonnerman (Morgansfort) has a tendency to put 28 kobolds in a room, in a 1st level adventure. You may want to simply halve his monster numbers where they look excessive - but I'm running it in Swords & Wizardry and doing that, it's not a 5e thing so much as a designer thing.

I always use the Basic D&D 2d6 Reaction & Morale rules, I'd recommend using those or similar.

Treasure: I don't normally alter the BX/BFRPG listed treasure values unless I also reduced monster numbers (eg halve monsters, halve treasure). The main thing is don't assume the PCs will find the treasure, it should be an uncertain reward. It won't break the game if they are successful and find lots of treasure. Just don't let them buy unlimited magic items from the DMG, 5e isn't designed to support that. A limited list of Common & Uncommon items at twice creation cost is fine, eg I have a list of Uncommon items the PCs can purchase at 1000gp each. Likewise if you allow magic item creation at list price, enforce crafting time, level limits, formulae etc so they are encouraged to focus on the cheaper, easier stuff.

Occasionally a treasure listing seems hugely off. My rule of thumb is that if it seems wrong by an order of magnitude I'll take a 0 off the end.

Aside from magic items, it's great IMO if the PCs find lots of treasure and are motivated to do interesting things with it. It definitely won't break the game (or any edition of D&D except 3e/PF, really).

S'mon

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Running OSR modules with 5e: What to watch out for?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2018, 06:43:22 AM »
Quote from: spon;1049287
OSR modules tend to have large amounts of monetary treasure - something that was needed for training, building castles, maintaining Hirelings, etc. So you may want to cut down the amount of monetary treasure (divide by 5 or 10?) Some modules gave out magic willy-nilly, as magic weapons were required to hit certain creatures. In 5th ed these sorts of creatures take less damage, rather than being impossible to hit. Maybe replace some of the permanent magic items with single/limited use/weaker items? So replace a +1 bow with 10 +1 arrows. Morale rules are pretty important in OSR - as is allowing "Out-of-the-box" solutions. Defeating 100 Orcs would rarely come down to combat to the last PC/orc.

Traps are pretty simple to fix - Save or Die is replaced by "Take XD6 damage, save for half). I use 2D6 base, with increments of +2D6 per "-1" to the save. Save and/or locate DCs Are usually around 15, but really nasty/difficult ones could be up to 20. Poisons can also give the poisoned condition if you're feeling that way inclined.
   
So an OSR poison trap (save at -1 or die) would be DC 15 to locate. If triggered, the victim would need to make a DC 15 CON save, taking 4D6 on  a failed save, 2D6 on a successful one.

This is right, but I'd note that Basic D&D (& BFRPG) magic item distribution is close enough to 5e norms. IME it's only in AD&D modules where you may find excessive magic items, usually held by NPCs - the dungeons tend to be ok, but Gygax gave NPCs an awful lot of stuff.

A +1 magic weapon or shield is only an Uncommon item in 5e and shouldn't be unusual IMO, especially as 5e still has a good number of creatures resistant or immune to mundane weapons.

Traps - yup, you could use the 5e DMG but 1d6 to 2d6 per 'trap level' (defaulting to dungeon level or adventure level) from 1st to 10th works fine, with a baseline save DC of 15. Weak & low level traps may be DC 10, the worst high level ones DC 20. DEX save to avoid, CON save for none or half, etc depending on the trap. By default 5e traps don't grant XP and don't need precise tailoring. Just doubling the listed 5e damage can work, but may be excessive; +50% may be better. Eg in Stonehell my groups have twice fallen foul of a lightning trap on dungeon Level 9, in Basic/LL it's listed as 10d6 damage. I made that 14d6, same as a lightning bolt cast at 9th level, with a DC 15 DEX save for half. I made the Stone Snake in the next room attack at +9 for a venomous bite of 3d6+5 piercing & 20d6 poison, DC 15 CON save for half.

S'mon

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Running OSR modules with 5e: What to watch out for?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2018, 06:53:31 AM »
Quote from: Robyo;1049281
I've decided either Morgansfort, Chaotic Caves, or Monkey Isle would be fun.

I found Monkey Isle by far the most fun of those three to run. It's not suitable for 1st level PCs but would work great as a sequel to Phandelver. Better than Isle of Dread IMO.

Chaotic Caves didn't really grab my group when run, the lack of NPC names in town bugged me and I didn't like the map much. It's potentially a nice homage to Keep on the Borderlands though.

Morgansfort by contrast has a very nice map and the fort has lots of personality. I'm currently running this and enjoying it a lot. Just cut down on the monster numbers for low level play. Could work well as a mashup with Chaotic Caves, eg setting the Caves map adjacent to the Morgansfort one.

I also recommend Adventure Anthology #1, and I liked the Fortress from Fortress/Tower/Tomb the Glain Campaign, a nice homage to Palace of the Silver Princess.

Haffrung

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Running OSR modules with 5e: What to watch out for?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2018, 12:08:03 PM »
As others have noted, there's way too much treasure - especially magic treasure.

Also, solo monsters rarely pose a challenge in 5E. If you have a solo that is supposed to be a tough fight, add some allies or environmental hazards.
 

Nerzenjäger

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Running OSR modules with 5e: What to watch out for?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2018, 03:56:49 PM »
HP.

Everything else is easy to model on-the-fly.
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Robyo

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Running OSR modules with 5e: What to watch out for?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2018, 08:52:03 AM »
Lots of great ideas! I look forward to incorporating the advice in this thread into my game.

RPGPundit

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Running OSR modules with 5e: What to watch out for?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2018, 06:38:19 AM »
I think you can do it pretty easily, just wing it and use some common sense.
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spon

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Running OSR modules with 5e: What to watch out for?
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2018, 10:05:14 AM »
Quote from: RPGPundit;1049755
I think you can do it pretty easily, just wing it and use some common sense.

Doesn't this describe general GM Best practice? :-)

RPGPundit

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Running OSR modules with 5e: What to watch out for?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2018, 03:08:11 AM »
Quote from: spon;1049789
Doesn't this describe general GM Best practice? :-)

To a certain extent, yeah.
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