Apparently Dwimmermount is way out of schedule, the PDFs and books have not materialized, so some people who have backed the kickstarter are getting really pissed now at James M.

You can read about it on this thread of Autarch's forums: http://www.autarch.co/forums/dwimmermount/scam

Anybody funded the project here? I just thought I'd share the news about this, if anyone was left in the cold or wondered where this was going. Lots of details about deadlines and the development of the project shared by Tavis who's doing a great job of trying to keep everyone informed. It can also serve as an example for people who are thinking about kickstarters and stuff.

Disclaimer:I worked with James on several projects like Cursed Chateau

"I run with scissors" is being a dick about it but the project needed to get back on track with a realistic schedule.

The work on a RPG Projects increases geometrically not linearly with the size of the locale being covered. Writing nine levels of a mega dungeon is not nine times the work of writing one but more. So it not surprising the deadline on this was going to be badly blown.

The big lesson is that communication and planning is crucial to a successful Kickstarter Project not just for funding but seeing it to completion.

I have confidence that James will have a solid project completed and done for everybody despite the delays.

Amateur publisher blows deadline, project hit with significant delays. Never heard of that one before.

Also, one way to avoid that kind of thing is to start the Kickstarter with a completed or close to completed manuscript.

I helped fund it. I also don't have a problem with the delays - those things always happen.

(Of course, I am losing interest in the project.)

Quote from: Melan;582166Also, one way to avoid that kind of thing is to start the Kickstarter with a completed or close to completed manuscript.

That's basically my take-away from this.

Quote from: estar;582164The work on a RPG Projects increases geometrically not linearly with the size of the locale being covered. Writing nine levels of a mega dungeon is not nine times the work of writing one but more. So it not surprising the deadline on this was going to be badly blown.

This is correct, and it applies to other hobbies just as well as RPGs. My other hobby is building levels for Thief and more recently The Dark Mod. Early last year, some of us got together to create a full-blown campaign to gain the mod more exposure (there are 55+ maps out there, but they are mostly unrelated). We decided to start with a modest plan that amounted to pooling a number of missions we had all been working on individually, and which were all around 60-75% done. We figured a neat 6-month schedule to get it done, edit it together with simple briefings and so on. After all, all of us have made missions, some of us multiple ones.

And, uh, a year and a half later, we are making progress, but still working on the thing. The increase of the workload is geometric all right. A large, complex single mission is not as much work as six missions that are individually one sixth the size, and this is a multi-mission pack. The same applies to modules, of course.

The crucial difference is, we didn't take anyone's money. Dwimmermount did, and it was actually one of the most successful Kickstarters out there. With that kind of success you get extra scrutiny.

Quote from: Jacob Marley;582170I helped fund it. I also don't have a problem with the delays - those things always happen.

I helped fund it as well and I'm not terribly upset by the delays... probably because I'm not surprised by the delays given I thought the projected completion dates were as laughably too soon as the ones a former boss of mine would come up with for programming projects.

Quote from: Benoist;582171That's basically my take-away from this.

Yeah, having done a kickstarter before (and succeeded), it always strikes me odd that people would put out a kickstarter and not have hardly anything done.  That's a recipe for disaster.  I don't even know how they know what goals to set because without all of this already determined, you don't know what your costs are to get the project done in the first place.

A far, far more accurate title for this thread would be "One malignant aspie is really fucking pissed at James M. and Dwimmermount, while other backers express mild concern."

I'm a backer, and I really don't give a shit about the delays. A major reason behind them -- a serious, unforeseen family emergency -- is a pretty damned good reason. (An example of a really bad reason would be the primary author being distracted by other projects.)

On the whole, both James and Autarch have done a decent job communicating openly and honestly about the situation. And if anything, they have been bending over too far to accommodate a couple of crybabies like Runs with Scissors. Could they have done a better job being out in front of the bad news? Sure, and Tavis would be the first to admit it.

My patience is not inexhaustible; I am no all weather Jamie Mal superfan, rain or shine. I have been in on some pre-orders that were truly run poorly, with far longer delays and with far less communication. That's an unacceptable situation.

In contrast, this is a well-run project that has just happened to run into some shit luck and has blown the original deadline. *Shrug.* Backers have been seeing drafts of material all along, and what I've seen so far has been really good. Autarch has been extremely patient with the grievers and is attempting to make amends. I can't ask for much more, and frankly I don't think I deserve much more than that.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;582180Yeah, having done a kickstarter before (and succeeded), it always strikes me odd that people would put out a kickstarter and not have hardly anything done.  That's a recipe for disaster.  I don't even know how they know what goals to set because without all of this already determined, you don't know what your costs are to get the project done in the first place.

I got the feeling that James M. felt his notes on Dwimmermount were a strong enough basis to support the Kickstarter. This wasn't his first dog-and-pony show; he is a published author of game books. So, I take him at his word when he stated that family issues (health issues with his dad, I think) were the root cause of the delays.

Not concernead about delays, but I am curious if Dwimmermount is 1E compatable?

Quote from: Melan;582166Also, one way to avoid that kind of thing is to start the Kickstarter with a completed or close to completed manuscript.

I agree, and formed this opinion before reading anything about what was happening with Dwimmermount. Of course some projects need stuff in order to be completed like the DCC RPG App Kickstarter. The programmer needed more tablets and gear in order to finish the project.

But for publishing everything that could possibly be done within the talents of the publishers should be ready to go before starting the project. Anything for stretch goals should be mostly done.

For me personally that means the writing is finished and edited as well as the maps. Likely what I would use Kickstarter to fund projects involving poster size maps or boxes. Use the money to pay the cost for art and print runs. The big first time item for me would be how to handle the volume of shipping once it completed.

I hope the whole thing doesn't sour before I am ready because it seems like a great middle point while bootstrapping the scope of your publishing projects.

Quote from: Bill;582187Not concernead about delays, but I am curious if Dwimmermount is 1E compatable?

As compatible as Keep on the Borderlands. Which to say very compatible although written for an older edition.

Quote from: estar;582190As compatible as Keep on the Borderlands. Which to say very compatible although written for an older edition.

I managed to get a 1E group going; starting Sunday. Allthough I would not expect Dwimmermount to be ready for this campaign, I am likely to keep doing 1E for years.

Mmmmmm...my 1E fix is about to start after many, many years of 3X/4X.

Can't wait!

Quote from: estar;582190As compatible as Keep on the Borderlands. Which to say very compatible although written for an older edition.

Stats are suppposed to be spelled out for ACKS (which is a modded Moldvay-Cook B/X) or Labyrinth Lord (the direct clone of B/X) if I'm not mistaken?