Quote from: McrowLuke,

I don't even know why you bother to read the Pundits reviews. Normal Pundy pounds on games that have even the slightest forge smell to them.  For CoS though I think he actually liked the game for the most part.

The more you post here the less respect I have for you and your games. Try being less of an asshat. :fu2:

QFT

Although hey, it's fun to read...like watching a hair-pulling, nail-scratching girl fight.

Quote from: Abyssal MawIt's not "Conspiracy of Cthulhu..."

Geez.

Quite, the analogy didn't really make sense to me.

Luke also seemed to miss that overall this was a fairly positive review which made me more interested in the game than before I had read it.

I also got the sense that it was a positive review.

It certainly had a lot of details that I had never read about before.

Gratuitous forgie-slamming, sure. But there were details! And an overall positive spin!

Quote from: keith senkowskiYou can actually read the conspiracy generator/toolkit on my wiki here.  The game material is under the creative commons license (but not the setting material) so all the rules and stuff are posted on the site free.

Awesome, Keith! Thank you for the pointers and double-thank you for releasing some material out there for everyone to peruse.

Good luck with the game and fyour uture RPG projects!

Quote from: lukeAh yes, classic highschool review: "I didn't understand parts of this, so the author is an asshole and I'm going to talk trash about him. I know, I'll accuse him of being an intellectually dishonest homosexual. That'll score points with the jocks and the cool girls."

Wow, what a surprise. "I hate the reviewer and all he stands for, so instead of debating fairly will him I will paint him as an ignoramus and a homophobe". Colour me shocked.

QuoteKeith's a friend of mine, so personally, I'm fucking insulted by this shit you talk. But more than that, I'm embarrassed by your paternalistic, ignorant, myopic excuse for an opinion.

Really? You're embarrassed by that? You really should concern yourself with a lot of other stuff that you could be embarrassed about before that, like say, your acting like a spoilt primma donna at cons, or trying to pretend to be a Roleplaying celebrity...

QuoteYou accuse Conspiracy of Shadows of failing to provide a great conspiracy. Let me retrieve my Call of Cthulhu (5th edition) book and reference it...

Where's the section on how to build a conspiracy? Why, I'm shocked, there isn't one! One pages 72 to 73 there's a bunch of vague claptrap about Keeper Strategy and Maxims: "Stoke your love for the mysterious..." which follows with advice for using funny voices, "Mythos always corrupts or injures" followed by "Acquiring Mythos knowledge should never be bland or routine;" then the brilliant advice, "Don't kill investigators off-handedly." Genius. And similarly profound, "Give motive to the investigators."

Lynn and Sandy really go to town there and create a classic, eh? The example scenario they provide isn't even one from the game. They simply summarize "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward." It reminds of the GW painting guides where they show you the primed piece, then base coated, then beautifully detailed and finished. Thanks guys, I think we missed a few steps.

You see? Even the greatest horror conspiracy game of all time doesn't provide you with the tools to build your own. It simply assumes you're familiar with the source material. Which is, in my opinion, a huge failing in game design.

Wow.. um.. do you actually know of CoC? I mean, you seem to have read it.. but you seem very confused.  Perhaps someone should tell you that CoC isn't actually a conspiracy game.  Its not "Conspiracy of Cthulhu".

You know what this means? Yes, you got it: you're talking out of your ass.

If Keith didn't want people to call him on not actually having a Conspiracy in his game, he shouldn't have fucking called it Conspiracy of Shadows.  He could have called it "Call of Shadows", maybe. Then I wouldn't have had any issue with the lack of an actual conspiracy; I wouldn't even have brought it up;  just like, say no one in their right fucking mind would bring up the lack of conspiracy in a game like Call of Cthulhu, because no where does it imply that "conspiracy" is a central theme of the game.

QuoteThe point here, is that the review is clouded by obscene bias and lacks real knowledge of roleplaying games as a medium -- both via actual play and historically. It's merely a sophmore opinion piece written by a child who can't be arsed not to curse, belittle, bully or do any research -- like playing the game.

-L

Wow. You're a really amusing character. Judging by the kind of games you like and design, I feel pretty secure in feeling that you would be in no fucking place to quantify anyone's knowledge of RPGs.  Especially since you don't seem to believe that all Horror RPGs automatically have conspiracies? Or.. what?  :confused:
I don't know. But its obvious that at the very least you have no fucking clue about CoC.  I'd bet that you really wouldn't be qualified to say anything intelligent about any other real RPGs either.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Consonant DudeSo, how good is the "conspiracy generator" in this game?

I think if it kicks ass, that might actually be a plus for me. I hate fluff and I believe gamers know best what will appeal to them and their group.

Since you are saying that in retrospect you would also include conspiracies, does that mean you aren't satisfied with it, or is it more a case of trying to satisfy more customers?

Anyway, I think it was a great idea! Would like to know how it was implemented.

There is no "conspiracy generator" in the sense of random tables or anything like that. Or even mechanics. Just some detailed guidelines. But they're fairly good at detailing the step-by-step process of what you need to work out to make a conspiracy.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the "conspiracy generator"; but the really cool part of the game is actually the way you design the "gaming group".

Anyways, I agree with keith that the best option might have been to have two or three in-setting conspiracies, AND keep the generator.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Abyssal MawI also got the sense that it was a positive review.

It certainly had a lot of details that I had never read about before.

Gratuitous forgie-slamming, sure. But there were details! And an overall positive spin!

Yes, Luke must have missed that, and the part in this thread where I essentially recommended the game for purchase.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditThere is no "conspiracy generator" in the sense of random tables or anything like that. Or even mechanics. Just some detailed guidelines. But they're fairly good at detailing the step-by-step process of what you need to work out to make a conspiracy.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the "conspiracy generator"; but the really cool part of the game is actually the way you design the "gaming group".

Anyways, I agree with keith that the best option might have been to have two or three in-setting conspiracies, AND keep the generator.

RPGPundit

Just some more clarification, I expanded on the Conspiracy toolkit/generator thang and posted it to my wiki (Giving the Conspiracy Teeth) which adds a mechanical element.  It isn't in the review cause it isn't in the book, but it is a pretty good example of the evolution of the game as I continue to add stuff to it...

On a related note, did you get a chance to look at the Companion book at all?

Quote from: keith senkowskiJust some more clarification, I expanded on the Conspiracy toolkit/generator thang and posted it to my wiki (Giving the Conspiracy Teeth) which adds a mechanical element.  It isn't in the review cause it isn't in the book, but it is a pretty good example of the evolution of the game as I continue to add stuff to it...

On a related note, did you get a chance to look at the Companion book at all?

I did indeed, Keith, but only just to glance at it. I do think it was a valuable addition to the game, particularly the detailed setting-appropriate creatures. Good stuff, very Polish, and good for the game.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditThere is no "conspiracy generator" in the sense of random tables or anything like that. Or even mechanics. Just some detailed guidelines. But they're fairly good at detailing the step-by-step process of what you need to work out to make a conspiracy.

I just checked them and must agree. More guidelines than a generation process. I'd have prefered a little more meat, crunch and detail myself but it's ok.

Quote from: keith senkowskiJames, we have traded PMs on the subject of the affects of affiliation (in particular my affiliation) with the Forge.  It might be something to pursue on another thread (or here).

Probably best that we save it for another thread (and maybe another forum). If you know of a forum where this might be discussed without people taking up a sizeable portion of the thread with denials of responsibility for inappropriate public antics or trying to subvert the thread with "He's saying that all of the Forge is bad!" strawmen, please let me know. 'Cause if it exists, I've never seen it

James,

Maybe the best bet would be a thread that discusses the positive and negative affects of various affiliations on games as part of a larger discussion on why some games/products seem to tap into the market well and others don't.  I mean you can look at DnD products and see trends, not just indie games and the like.  A thread like that may have a better chance of surviving...

I would just like to say thanks for the review: it was the deciding factor in me purchasing this game.  Keith, this game is excellent.   Haven't had the chance to pick up the Companion yet, so I'll poke around for another review more pertaining to that as well.

Luke:  I agree with Mcrow, man.  You seriously need to think before you post on here, because you're really coming off as a bit of an ass.  I'm a big fan of what you've done, but you gotta control that blood pressure, baby.

Quote from: Zachary The FirstI would just like to say thanks for the review:

Welcome back Zachary!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceWelcome back Zachary!

-clash

Thanks!  I'll try to be hanging out a bit more around here--I've missed it.