Quote from: Crusader X on January 01, 2024, 02:58:00 PM
I just found this thread today, after reading your post in the What is your RPG resolution for 2024? thread.  I'm looking to try out a Cyberpunk game this year, and the reviews here have been invaluable reading.

I'm mainly interested in more rules-lite games these days.  Something no more complex than D&D 5e or D&D B/X is about my comfort level of game complexity.

A few days ago I learned that there was a Kickstarter for a new game called Tiny Cyberpunk, from the makers of Tiny Dungeon.  I probably would have backed this Kickstarter if it hadn't ended before I found out about it.  I have the Tiny Dungeon PDF, and while the mechanics may be a bit too simple, I really didn't know a whole lot about what other Cyberpunk games are out there. Until I found this thread!

Based on your reviews here, the following games have caught my interest:

CY_Borg
Carbon 2185
Neon City Overdrive
Neon Blood
Ziabatsu

I may go ahead and purchase the CY_Borg Hardcover on Amazon, even though I strongly dislike Mork Borg.  For fantasy RPGs, I like classic Tolkien heroic fantasy, and I can't stand the edgy death metal look of Mork Borg.  The actual game mechanics seem nice and simple though.  And while I don't like Mork Borg, I do have the PDF of Pirate Borg, and that I like. I don't mind edgy and over the top visual design in other genres, I just don't want it in my heroic medieval fantasy games.  I grew up on early TSR D&D and AD&D art, and that's what I like for fantasy.  But other genres can be more experimental.

Since the mechanics of Pirate Borg and CY_Borg are similar, that's another reason I'm looking at CY_Borg, as I would just need to learn one new system, rather than two.

The other game systems mentioned above also look very nice, though!  I want fairly rules-lite mechanics, a fairly detailed and flavorful setting, and published adventures, if possible.  I'm going to continue to research these other games before I pull the trigger on CY_Borg.  So thank you for the very informative thread!

I'm glad you found my list and I'm glad you found it informative.  Ultimately, I just want guys to get products that actually are what they thought they were buying.

The games you list i would personally put them in this order:

Zaibatsu
Neon Blood
Carbon 2185
Neon City Overdrive
Cy_Borg

Zaibatsu, Neon Blood, and Carbon 2185 are all "rules medium" and are on par or slightly easier than 5e.  Carbon 2185 is 5e so if your players are already good to go then it's a great drop-in game.

Neon Blood will play very familiar to 5e players with some slight differences.  It's one of the best game to play cyberpunk with IMO.

Zaibatsu is a Traveller based game and it's deceptively deep and rich mechanically while being clean and easy to use.  Traveller and Cepheus Engine have a lot going for them so getting and learning this game is a gateway to a wonderful collection of games and adventures.

While Cy_Borg is a pretty good game overall, it's anchored down by a layout that makes the book hard to use and a community content list that's more art projects than well laid out game material.  You're going to need a lot of personal motivation to create or find and adapt material for it.

BadApple, do you know much about the Cyberpunk Edgerunners Mission Kit?  I'm wondering if this might be a good place to start with Cyberpunk rpgs.  I do like boxed starter sets, and I'm an anime fan so I like the style of Edgerunners. I just don't know if this starter kit will be too simplistic and limited.  The info that I've read so far mentions the inclusion of pre-generated characters, but I haven't seen any mention of character creation rules, so I'm not even sure if this set will allow you to create your own PCs.

The release date of this starter set is supposedly the first half of 2024, and I'm anxious to learn more.  If this set has fairly robust rules, I might just pick it up.  But if it doesn't contain rules to create your own characters and expects you to just play the pre-gens, I'll pass.

It isn't out yet.  I am not an insider so I don't have a copy.  I can't tell you what's in it but...

It is Cyberpunk Red so it's using Fuzion, the same mechanics as The Witcher RPG.  I reviewed Red in this thread and there was a discussion in the main TTRPG sub about The Witcher.  From what I can tell, it's a themed starter set for RED in the same vein of the Rick and Morty D&D 5e boxed set; it's using the core rules from RED with mixing characters and tech from the anime.  Red isn't bad per se but it isn't great either.  Nor is it rules light and the only other games that use the system are either commonly maligned (like The Witcher) or obscure.

I have all the material for RED: the core book, the starter set, Tales from the Red, Black Chrome, The Danger Gals Dossier. and several two page .pdfs they have released.  I wan this to be a good game but it keeps going in the wrong direction.  I may be foolish but I keep hoping there will be a "wake up and smell the coffee" moment at R. Talsorian and the game development will get corrected. 

For getting into the Cyberpunk feel as a GM not matter what system you're running, I can recommend the Night City source book and Tales from the Forlorn Hope.  Both of these are books for Cyberpunk 2020 and are available on DriveThruRPG as .pdfs or as soft covers directly from R. Talsorian.  Night City is literally a travel guide for the city with listings for almost anything you'd want as a GM or a player.  It could make a campaign al by itself.  Tales from the Forlorn Hope is a series of short adventures for new edge runners that features a wide variety of activities that an edge runner might get into.  Both are light on stat blocks and heavy on creating the experience.

For anyone wanting to get into the genre I would say get one of these three game.  Cyberpunk 2020 if you want the authentic 80s and 90s Cyberpunk role play experience.  Neon Blood if you want the best of the new systems and are used to playing either 5e or 3e/3.5/Pathfinder.  Zaibatsu if want the best of the new systems and you are familiar with Traveller and Cepheus Engine or want to be and you're willing to port over material from other sources.

If you really want to go full on anime, then Carbon 2185 is an excellent choice.  It's not as hard edged as the above games.  The written adventures for it suck so you'll want to explore other material.  Night City and Forlorn hope will still work here.

Fragged Cyberpunk is a cyberpunk game by Design Ministries and is available on DriveThruRPG as a .pdf.
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/340831/fragged-cyberpunk

Mechanics

Fragged Cyberpunk is a 3d6 + stat + skill based game.  It has a layered complexity, with each layer being removable and modular.  It can be a light weight game or it can be fairly crunchy depending on the desired depth.  The book has guidance for how to adjust the crunch level.

It's worth noting that this is not just a re-skinned version of Fragged Empire.  They share the same core mechanic but there's a number of places where there's a significant change.  It should be a smooth transition for Fragged Empire players and the changes will feel natural to the setting.

PC development is done with improving skills and getting augmentations.  The augmentation list is pretty complete for the style of game play but there's plenty of room for a creative GM to homebrew.

Fragged Empire is known for it's multiple meta currencies but Fragged Cyberpunk only has one, spare time.  This mechanic replaces downtime activities as a straight meta currency for purchasing things that would be acquired through time and effort between mission such as new skills or social connections.  This has a very gamey feel to it.  This will appeal or repel players, depending on their taste.

Grid combat is one of the optional layers of complexity.  It's pretty deep but no where near as deep as Friday Night Fire Fight.  It could be used for quick skirmish games all on it's own.

Fragged Cyberpunk isn't very lethal as there's a lot of opportunity to save once you're down.  It's on par with 5e in that regard.

Setting

The setting is the prequal to Fragged Empire, focusing on the last few generations of humanity.  If you're familiar with Fragged Empire, then you have a good idea of how bleak the setting is.

Humanity expanded to cover large swaths of the universe with colonies everywhere they went.  To deal with the rigors of space travel and to reduce the cost and effort of terraforming, genetic manipulation was used to adapt people to new environments.  This has had the the devastating effect of genetic erosion and population collapse.  The vast majority of humans are sterile now and the few that can reproduce are likely to have sterile offspring.

Humanity has condensed itself in a few megacities throughout the universe, largely through the pressure of a handful of powerful elites.  This has created massive slums with a few gilded palace type towers housing the most privileged rising from the decay.

These cities are not self sufficient and rely on a series of farm colonies and industrial outposts.  Synthetic beings are used to man and operate these as human are banned from leaving the cities as hey may take precious DNA with them.

Players are denizens of one of these megacities trying to eek out a living.  Whether the goal is to climb the social ladder to a place of comfort, escape the totalitarian hellscape, or get revenge for the destruction of humanity is up to the player.

The setting is framed well but not fleshed out.  A GM is going to need to do a lot of work, particularly populating the world with NPCs.

It's my opinion that a good cyberpunk setting should be shades of gray with difficult moral quandaries that aren't easily settled.  The setting for Fragged Cyberpunk is very black and white.  I do like the fact that it doesn't try to shoehorn a PC into a particular play style or role but it's a bit of a cartoonish backdrop of a cyberpunk setting.

Layout and Presentation

The book is a scant 104 pages, about half the size or less than many of the books I've reviewed here.  That said, it doesn't feel as if anything is missing.

The rules are rather heavy, being a crunchy system that's modular, but it reads well enough and the author worked very hard to be clear.  It reads well and very little in depth explanation or example is needed.  I think it could use a bit more in the examples category.

It's well organized and it is easy to find what you're looking for.  An oft frequent complaint of mine applies here; I wish they would have provided quick reference cheat sheets for PC creation and combat as an appendix addition.

Most of the pages are black letters on white backgrounds.  After reading and reviewing several books were they try to cram art and style on every page, I've learned to appreciate this tremendously.  Where art is used, it's excellent.  Maps share the page with text frequently but all the theme image plates are their own pages.  The images work really well with the setting.

All in all, I feel that this book does a good job of being a usable game book.   

Odds and Ends

I like the system, it plays fairly intuitively.  I can't help but notice that it always feels like I'm playing a game though.  I think that it will take a long time before the mechanics of this game fade into the background enough for a truly immersive feel.

If I were to use this book, I would probably dump the setting altogether and house rule a few things.  I would definitely like to turn up the lethality.

Final Thoughts

If you're already playing a Fragged game and looking to have a cyberpunk experience or you have a group of teenage boys you're looking to graduate from 5e, this is a pretty solid game.

My chief complaint is that the game system will get in the way of immersion for some time until you really get to know the rules.  It's not bad but it will make it a difficult game to embrace for some tables.

This is a fun game.  It's easy to lean into the action and forget how bleak the setting is. 

I give Fragged Cyberpunk a 7 out of 10.

Details at a Glance

Rules:
   Complexity – Medium
   Usability     - Very good
   Immersion  - Poor
   Lethality     - Low

Setting:
   Tone          - Bleak
   Depth        - Somewhat Shallow
   Detail        - Low
   Factions    - Several but low details

This is a new section.  Let me know if you like it or if there's something I can do to make it better.

Xianta – CyberWuxia RPG is a rules light cyberpunk fantasy game by TLHP Games and is available on DriveThruRPG as a .pdf.
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/442197/xianta-cyber-wuxia-rpg

Mechanics

Xianta is based on Lasers and Feelings.  There's a single stat that you roll above for magic based actions and below for tech based actions.  This core stat is a number between 2 and 5 and you roll a d6 for checks.

The GM gives a player Karma point for doing things that are good and Dharma points for doing bad things.  If you fill up your Karma meter, the GM gives you some form of perk.  If you fill up your Dharma meter, your PC is now evil and becomes a villain NPC.

There's a list of classes that have no mechanical attributes listed. 

Setting

The setting is 1980s Hong Kong with high tech cybernetics and magic.  There's some descriptions of a few locations that give the setting some unique flavor. 

There's a handful of factions that are mentioned.  None are given more than a couple of sentences and none of them are given any NPCs.

Xianta is supposedly an independent city-state but it's also part of the Neon Empire and subject to it's rule.

There's some neat ideas but none of them are fleshed out to the level of being ready to play. 

Layout and Presentation

The book is 78 pages of neon colors and tumblr level wuxia art.  It's neat to scroll through once but it's not good enough to keep you interested for very long.

Making up for the distracting and eye stabbing hot colors is the text being a font to be read from across the room and double spaced.  All in all, you can read the entire thing in just a few minutes.

Final Thoughts

I think the idea is excellent for a game, I just wish it was made into one.  Honestly, what's here isn't even worth the bandwidth to pirate it.

I give Xianta a 0 out of 10.

Details at a Glance

System:
   Complexity   - None
   Usability           - Very poor
   Immersion   - Very poor
   Lethality           - GM fiat

Setting:
   Tone              - Bright and shiny Shaw Brothers
   Depth      - Very shallow
   Detail      - None
   Factions           - Not detailed at all

Given that it is a Lasers and Feeling hack, would Xianta work for something like a one shot convention game?  Perhaps giving it 1/10? 

What about Kuro?  It's at least a bit cyberpunk.

Quote from: zircher on January 06, 2024, 02:02:27 AM
Given that it is a Lasers and Feeling hack, would Xianta work for something like a one shot convention game?  Perhaps giving it 1/10?

It gets a 0 due to being an incomplete system, not for being a rules light system.  The classes should have had mechanical functions.  What is the HP?  How does combat work?  The staggering level of "it's just GM fiat" is what cripples it.  This is an improv exercise with a single check mechanic and a basic framework of a setting.  I don't want to give bad reviews but this isn't a game, it's the idea of a game that's going to need someone to do 99% of the construction on it.

The other half of why it got a 0 is that it's an empty setting.  There's no NPCs, there's no clear motivations, there's no history, there's no nuance.  It's like getting one of those house-in-a-box kits that's a stack of pre-cut lumber and a set of drawings.

If a game is playable but I really hate it, it gets a 4.  Below that, it's broken in some way.  A 3 is broken but there's an easy fix, a 2 is broken but it can run on another system with a little conversion or a moderate amount of house rules, a 1 is very broken but there's enough to figure out what the designer was trying to do so that a really ambitious GM could do something with it.

If the game gets a revision, I'm willing to revisit.  As is, it's just an art project and a few ideas.

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 06, 2024, 03:06:06 AM
What about Kuro?  It's at least a bit cyberpunk.

This one flew under my radar, thanks for bringing it to my attention.  It'll be a while before I get to it, I have several more in the chute now.

As always, I'm open to feedback and suggestions. 

Nice Reviews, and thank you for your work. I´m propably checking Zaibatsu out, although for my Cyberpunk fetish i have Shadowrun and Gurps. But i really like the Hostile Setting from Zozer games.

Shadowrun is Cyberpunk, with elves. Though I know alot of folk who play it without the fantasy elements.

And very worth a look is Nights Edge which is a supernatural cuberpunk setting for CP2020. Actually petty good and mostly delves into the technohorror aspects.

Another worth a glance is the original Cyberpapacy setting book for the original Torg. Odd little CP setting where the inquisition and church control the godnet.

Weird one. FREE Lancers was a 2nd ed Top Secret setting mixing Cyberpunk and pseudo-superheroes.

Also there was Chromsome for Amazing Engine. A bio-punk setting where biotech eclipsed cybernetics.

Another weird one is Gamma World for 3e/d20 Modern put out by White Wolf. Its a mix of primarily Nanotech and a little cyberpunk and bio-punk in a post apoc setting. The rules are broke and the writers didnt bother to write some rules because "The players will write that for us." Still, it has an actually really well written DMG with advice useful to more that just GW.

Dominion was an RPG using I think the FUSION system? Cyberpunk setting based on the anime. Nominally in the same setting as Apleseed which is even more cyberpunk a setting.

Quote from: Omega on January 08, 2024, 03:46:19 AM
Shadowrun is Cyberpunk, with elves. Though I know alot of folk who play it without the fantasy elements.

And very worth a look is Nights Edge which is a supernatural cuberpunk setting for CP2020. Actually petty good and mostly delves into the technohorror aspects.

Another worth a glance is the original Cyberpapacy setting book for the original Torg. Odd little CP setting where the inquisition and church control the godnet.

Weird one. FREE Lancers was a 2nd ed Top Secret setting mixing Cyberpunk and pseudo-superheroes.

Also there was Chromsome for Amazing Engine. A bio-punk setting where biotech eclipsed cybernetics.

Another weird one is Gamma World for 3e/d20 Modern put out by White Wolf. Its a mix of primarily Nanotech and a little cyberpunk and bio-punk in a post apoc setting. The rules are broke and the writers didnt bother to write some rules because "The players will write that for us." Still, it has an actually really well written DMG with advice useful to more that just GW.

Dominion was an RPG using I think the FUSION system? Cyberpunk setting based on the anime. Nominally in the same setting as Apleseed which is even more cyberpunk a setting.

Shadowrun is most definitely cyberpunk fantasy.  I love the lore and have several books.  However, my reviews are to help people choose what they are going to buy and I'm afraid I'm not the right guy to do that with Shadowrun.  Also, I find that people that are into Shadowrun are into Shadowrun, not cyberpunk "but I like this version."  There's 8 versions of the game now and I'm not even sure how I would approach it.  In a way, it is it's own genre and at a minimum I think I would have to review each edition in that light.  Much of this isn't readily available on the market now so it would be shitty for me to spin someone up to buy 4e only for them to spend four years trying to get a copy.

As for Night's Edge, I didn't like it at all.  I'm not really reviewing settings, my goal is to cover the game.  A setting is important because it helps a GM get a sense of the frame of the game, what the designer was thinking, and what kind of experience is intended to be had by the system.  By all means, if a particular alt setting that just doesn't do it for me is good for someone else, then that's what they should have.

I'm keeping my eyes open for cyberpunk material so I can keep adding to this.  Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look for them.

It's kind of funny but I'm not trying to be "the cyberpunk guy."  I want to review space opera and pulp games too.  I just started with this one because a few of the books I had were right there on top.

Quote from: CookieMonster on January 06, 2024, 08:16:49 AM
Nice Reviews, and thank you for your work. I´m propably checking Zaibatsu out, although for my Cyberpunk fetish i have Shadowrun and Gurps. But i really like the Hostile Setting from Zozer games.

Thanks! 

Would Underground be considered a cyberpunk rpg?  I'm actually not sure.

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 08, 2024, 08:37:57 AM
Would Underground be considered a cyberpunk rpg?  I'm actually not sure.

I always thought it was more of a super hero game.  That said, I've already covered games that blend genres.  I'm fully on board with the idea that not everything needs to be in convenient boxes.  (I was the guy who started a firestorm with the idea of running a cyberpunk game in the Star Trek universe.)

Quote from: BadApple on January 08, 2024, 08:42:17 AM

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 08, 2024, 08:37:57 AM
Would Underground be considered a cyberpunk rpg?  I'm actually not sure.

I always thought it was more of a super hero game.  That said, I've already covered games that blend genres.  I'm fully on board with the idea that not everything needs to be in convenient boxes.  (I was the guy who started a firestorm with the idea of running a cyberpunk game in the Star Trek universe.)

It has a lot cyberpunk tropes.  It has the corporations as sovereign countries fighting ciorporate wars thing.  The characters are genetically modified soldiers created for corporate wars.  They are taught to use their powers in a vr sim that depicts them as superheroes in an ultraviolent comic book world.  They come out believing that is their actual past.  A fast food chain genetically engineered stupid people who are genetically designed to only be able to eat their food.  There's a bunch of stuff like that in it.