Quote from: Cipher on April 26, 2024, 03:37:17 AM

Quote from: Omega on April 25, 2024, 10:56:26 PM

Quote from: Trond on April 24, 2024, 04:12:18 PMTo answer the original question, no, Tolkien was not to the detriment of the hobby. I agree with those who say that wokeists would insert themselves no matter what. Say, if elves were simply handled as spirits by Tolkien, and we used that in gaming, they would complain about why we don't have more African spirits or some such.

Pretty much this. Remember. There is no limit at all that the woke can not hallucinate some utterly insane excuse for.

"Goblins are red. That means they re really Native Americans! And that means when you are killing goblins you are promoting real world GENOCIDE!!!"

They already did this, with all the cries of "greenskins" being a racial slur and such. I've even seen some people claim that Dragon Age Origins calling elves "knife ears" was also a racial slur.

I mean, isn't' it? I thought the fantasy racism subplot in Dragon Age was one of it's most tiresome elements, but wasn't it supposed to be a clumsy analogy to real-world racism?

Also is that where that came from? Calling elves "knife-ears" has become a bit of a meme at this point, to the point where it even made it into that shitty Rings of Power show. I was wondering who came up with it first.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 26, 2024, 07:13:46 AM

Quote from: BadApple on April 25, 2024, 10:59:04 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 25, 2024, 07:32:00 PMHas anyone made an alternative to BattleTech? I don't imagine that it's sustainable to not buy from the publisher anymore.

Are you talking rules sets or minis?

There are a LOT of TTWG rules sets that could make for a solid drop in for BT rules.  Some could even be argued as being much better.  With the advent of 3d printers, I think it's only a matter of time before This becomes the go to option.

As far as minis, there are several producers.  There's even a company that still makes some of the old metal BT minis.

The only full package replacement for BT that I'm currently aware of is CAV by Talon Games.  It's not as fleshed out as BT but it's a full one-stop shop for a mecha war game.

And what about multimedia? Books, video games, cartoons?

You mean like 400 bazillion anime, manga series, and light novels?

Quote from: BadApple on April 25, 2024, 10:59:04 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 25, 2024, 07:32:00 PMHas anyone made an alternative to BattleTech? I don't imagine that it's sustainable to not buy from the publisher anymore.

Are you talking rules sets or minis?

There are a LOT of TTWG rules sets that could make for a solid drop in for BT rules.  Some could even be argued as being much better.  With the advent of 3d printers, I think it's only a matter of time before This becomes the go to option.

As far as minis, there are several producers.  There's even a company that still makes some of the old metal BT minis.

The only full package replacement for BT that I'm currently aware of is CAV by Talon Games.  It's not as fleshed out as BT but it's a full one-stop shop for a mecha war game.

And what about multimedia? Books, video games, cartoons?

Correct.

Quote from: Wrath of God on April 25, 2024, 04:24:04 AMFor sheer curiosity I propose adding to list The Veil by SJK Publishing.

This one?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/199467/The-Veil-Cyberpunk-Roleplaying-Powered-by-the-Apocalypse

Greetings!

It is all about corrupting everything in society, and forcing the culture to embrace the ideological changes into Marxism and Wokism. There are articles and such where executives and politicians have admitted that it isn't about money or profit--none of that matters. What matters is changing the culture as a whole--one way or the other.

This ideological foundation is what so many "normies" and middle-of-the-road mushy fence-sitters never really want to confront. There IS NO MIDDLE GROUND. CENTRISM IS A DELUSION. You are either on one side or the other. Either you embrace the Woke Utopia--or you will be destroyed.

Everyone must resist and fight against all of the Woke BS, everywhere it shows up.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Omega on April 25, 2024, 10:56:26 PM

Quote from: Trond on April 24, 2024, 04:12:18 PMTo answer the original question, no, Tolkien was not to the detriment of the hobby. I agree with those who say that wokeists would insert themselves no matter what. Say, if elves were simply handled as spirits by Tolkien, and we used that in gaming, they would complain about why we don't have more African spirits or some such.

Pretty much this. Remember. There is no limit at all that the woke can not hallucinate some utterly insane excuse for.

"Goblins are red. That means they re really Native Americans! And that means when you are killing goblins you are promoting real world GENOCIDE!!!"

They already did this, with all the cries of "greenskins" being a racial slur and such. I've even seen some people claim that Dragon Age Origins calling elves "knife ears" was also a racial slur.

Quote from: Brad on February 13, 2024, 12:07:20 PMSee what you do is make a beer commercial with a tranny in it, even though 99% of your customer base is a bunch of rednecks and Catholics, then wonder why your company tanks. This just reminds me of the JRRT "superfans" who made videos on Youtube to push the Amazon Rings of Power and it was obvious they had no clue wtf they were even talking about. The only requirement for being a "superfan" was apparently having blue hair and writing a blog post about how LotR is misogynistic because you discovered it has like two female characters after you hatewatched half of the Peter Jackson movies.

This made me laugh pretty loudly, but the actual matter at hand is much more serious.  Whatever motivation has caused a bunch of ostensibly intelligent and well meaning people to embark on these absolutely disgusting missions- where profit is thrown away in exchange for what they earnestly believe is an unalloyed good, but is, in fact, socially ruinous- is really quite dire.

When it comes to Hasbro as a whole or even D&D in particular, I'm not even sure if the go-woke-go-broke is the main factor, or even all that large of a factor.  Certainly, assuredly, it is a factor, and when I see a video with a guy in it doubting that it matters at all, I know he's trying to take a politically neutral tract when the reality is actually somewhat political.

What I think is interesting though is that it's the players and DMs with the most passion, the ones who were bought in the most to the older, superior stuff, that are the ones who offer the pushback and then switch to some system that doesn't give the offender money.  We also see this in other adjacent things, such as players of miniatures games trying to find ways to set up offbrand, older, and 3D printed alternatives.  Tabletop has an advantage in that every real game is ultimately a circle of people; if you go to some competitive miniature event, arguably the ultimate use of such a collection, you are gonna have to play by all the corporate rules.  D&D doesn't have this, and won't unless it achieves incredible success with a virtual tabletop- and I don't think that they will.

The other thing that isn't considered is this; you take 100 gamers and DMs, and you push your shitty political agenda on them.  Some of them like it- say, 10.  Many don't care- say, 50.  Of the remaining 40, you have people who will just shrug and get over it, and then you have a small core who become, for lack of a better term, radicalized.  Even if that's just 1 guy in that 100, he'll lead his group away from that, suggest other games, find ways to deny WotC a revenue stream from himself and his buddies.  By doing this, they create a non-ignorable group that will continue to push back against them.  In other words, it's not just a matter of dollars, you end up making some people in the community simply opposed to you. 

And there's no way that's a smart call in the long term, and yet, that's what so very many companies are doing.  Why create "brand unembassadors" or whatever?  How does that help?

Quote from: Omega on April 25, 2024, 11:27:11 PM

Quote from: JeremyR on April 19, 2024, 04:16:40 PMB/X was the one that literally came with its own setting . And yeah, it was meant to be more user friendly since it was aimed at children.

If you think BX was aimed at children then you really dont know much about BX then.

I'm presuming JeremyR is commenting on the form factor and packaging for the times, not necessarily the way the content could be used. Even given the '70s and the craziness that got sold as for children, you still had to adjust product to get through parental opprobrium.

Quote from: Omega on April 25, 2024, 11:24:30 PMPolymorph was a great insta-kill spell in AD&D.

Ha! So true. And remember Find Familiar in AD&D? A useful spell, but really you had to be cautious. At higher level it slipped into play better, like other spells like Gaze Reflection, but at low levels you can get in serious trouble or die if you are incautious with your Familiar. Nowadays in 5e that single spell can seem to solo the majority of an adventure's exploration so the party can finally pop in and nova the end scene. Not my style of fun, I prefer the tension.