Quote from: Corolinth on May 12, 2024, 04:51:45 PMThat's fine, but it doesn't change the facts on the ground. As a general rule, OSR people aren't into Vampire, and aren't interested in recreating Vampire. The people who are into Vampire are still doing Vampire.

If there was going to be a replacement game that didn't use nu-WW's nu-WoD rules, it would probably be fueled by the end times, and you still wouldn't want to play it.

I just want urban fantasy. No end times bullshit, no leftoid bullshit, no failed novelists tricking me into reading their shitty microfiction, no faux-gamer cultists worshiping said shitty microfiction, none of that. Is there really nobody alive who would be interested in an actual game, intended to be played, that features magical creatures living on a modernish Earth?

Quote from: Corolinth on May 12, 2024, 04:57:42 PM

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on May 06, 2024, 02:40:44 PM

Putting this here because the comments sections favorably compares this to Ginny Di and Matthew Collive.

I tried to watch this, because I understand the appeal of Studio Ghibli, but as soon as the chode started talking about his ADHD and his ass burgers, I'm done.

If that pissed you off, there's more where that came from!

Quote from: Crazy_Blue_Haired_Chick on May 06, 2024, 02:40:44 PM

Putting this here because the comments sections favorably compares this to Ginny Di and Matthew Collive.

I tried to watch this, because I understand the appeal of Studio Ghibli, but as soon as the chode started talking about his ADHD and his ass burgers, I'm done.

That's fine, but it doesn't change the facts on the ground. As a general rule, OSR people aren't into Vampire, and aren't interested in recreating Vampire. The people who are into Vampire are still doing Vampire.

If there was going to be a replacement game that didn't use nu-WW's nu-WoD rules, it would probably be fueled by the end times, and you still wouldn't want to play it.

I guess I'd start by asking "What do you mean by Stealth?"


When I think of stealth, it either boils down to encounter stealth, or whole-scenario stealth. The D&D rulesets have an acceptable level of abstraction for encounter stealth, but really fall flat if you try to apply them to whole-scenario stealth.

Key principles I would suggest for designing a system for whole-scenario stealth:

* More players rolling dice should not necessarily lead to higher chance of failure
* Every character can contribute something unique to the encounter (not just "I roll Stealth")

In my mind, whole-scenario stealth is more along the lines of Ocean's Eleven or Mission Impossible. You need to define key roles for characters like face-man, technical (hacker, mage), muscle, diversion, etc. The roles need not be specific to the character but could be fluid to the scenario -- e.g. Russian character is a more effective face-man in a Moscow-based scenario, even if he's normally the strong-man who knocks out guards.

What you probably end up with is some kind of progress-clock minigame where you give players a certain number of moves to accomplish their objectives. I also like the idea of a stealth pool that automatically ticks down, which implicitly creates some tension and you can either force players to do certain things (hide, knock out a guard, make a diversion, etc) to maintain stealth, or complete objectives.

I think the best stealth mechanics I've encountered recently are in a Stars Without Number supplement "Darkness Visible" which is about espionage campaigns.

Basically, you get everyone to roll their Stealth skill normally. The person with the highest Stealth skill has their skill level (Traveller-rated, so 4 is the highest) in free passes that they can dole out to the less ghostly party members. It keeps it light and fast, while also preventing one bad stealth roll from screwing the whole infiltration.

I do like the idea of a Stealth pool, where time and actions degrade the pool. I wouldn't use a HP mechanic, but I might use poker chips or something like that.

Quote from: Jason Coplen on May 11, 2024, 01:14:05 PMJeebus, I went and read some of it. That site really is too far left with Umbran and Morrus thinking they're right and this sex swap is fine.

Well evidently when morrus made the sarcastic quip to me: "It's fun, isn't it?" he didn't really mean it...

He blocked me after my last post, which 'locks' me out of the thread because he started it.

So I can see notifications of people replying to my post, but cannot reply in turn because the thread is not available to me.

Which of course makes it look like I walked away as there is no official red text thread ban, because I didn't actually violate any of their forum rules.

Being his forum and all, morrus knew full well what he was doing...

They like to dish it out, but man they really can't take any pushback.

Oh, and welcome RPhlegethon. Also, good luck...

Quote from: Corolinth on May 12, 2024, 11:47:47 AMI'm clipping off most of the text to save space. I fucking hate walls of nested quoted text.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 12, 2024, 09:45:32 AMI'm really surprised that people still buy that and haven't made OSR-style replacements. Vampires are a public domain concept and there's no reason you can't just make your own urban fantasy games about playing them.

I'm not surprised at all.

The OSR community doesn't want to play Vampire, they want to play B/X and 1E. In early TSR era D&D, you didn't get to be a vampire. That's not how it was done. Meanwhile, all of the WoD players are playing WoD because they don't like D&D. They don't want to roll a d20. They don't want to have classes. They're never going to play an OSR Vampire game.

Of course there's no OSR replacement for Vampire. It's a waste of everybody's time.

I mean in the sense of "why has nobody made a replacement game like how One Page Rules is replacing Games Workshop?" Not literally using D&D rules.

There's absolutely no reason to touch Paradox's dumpster fire games. WoD is unplayable in every edition and you only buy the books to read the garbage lore, which was nuked in 5e anyway. CoD is unplayable because of course it is, plus it's canceled and you'll be bullied by the WoD cultists if you mention you like it in public.

I don't want to deal with that bullshit. I have no attachment to their garbage lore and I want rules that are actually functional.

I'm clipping off most of the text to save space. I fucking hate walls of nested quoted text.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 12, 2024, 09:45:32 AMI'm really surprised that people still buy that and haven't made OSR-style replacements. Vampires are a public domain concept and there's no reason you can't just make your own urban fantasy games about playing them.

I'm not surprised at all.

The OSR community doesn't want to play Vampire, they want to play B/X and 1E. In early TSR era D&D, you didn't get to be a vampire. That's not how it was done. Meanwhile, all of the WoD players are playing WoD because they don't like D&D. They don't want to roll a d20. They don't want to have classes. They're never going to play an OSR Vampire game.

Of course there's no OSR replacement for Vampire. It's a waste of everybody's time.

Quote from: ForgottenF on May 12, 2024, 10:53:45 AMPersonally, I think that if you're going to go to all that trouble to strip magic out of D&D, you might as well just use a system that was less reliant on magic to begin with, but that's a matter of taste. Some people clearly like the underlying D&D system enough to make the effort worthwhile.

I think they argue that because if you look at the 1E AD&D books, Gary seems to have a huge hate-on for spellcasting classes. There is an undercurrent of, "Magic-users and clerics are NPCs only," that flows through the books. Did Gary actually want magic to be NPC-only? I don't think it was deliberate. I think it was subconscious. In the books and movies that inspired D&D, the wizard was always the Bad Guy. Nevertheless, there is certainly a subset of players who took this and ran with it, and they're always looking for an excuse to have a world where none of the PCs have magic.

It usually goes something like:

1) Wizards are overpowered
2) I don't want to allow wizards
3) Low fantasy gives me an excuse to ban wizards
4) Now my wizard villain is super scary

As for why they don't play a different game, most people just want to play whatever version of D&D they started with.

Quote from: RPGPundit on May 10, 2024, 09:25:26 PMDid you mention Zak S? Because that's probably why, he's blacklisted, though I'm not for some reason.

Yes, I copied the additional Consultation by from the 5E basic set and the text included Zak S name. I think you are right because Zak S and Alexander Macris (who I didn't mention) were listed as part of the reason my comment was rejected (your name wasn't mentioned). I should resubmit the point with Zak cut off to see what they'd do but the pettiness of the rejection makes me want to avoid the sight entirely.