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11
Greetings!

Yes, ForgottenF and I agree very much. In the "Wheelchair" thread, I made precisely the same argument. Yes, I am biased towards harsh, brutal reality, because I have actually done all of what amounts to as "Adventuring" in real life, professionally. While the Army and Navy are not as strict and demanding as the Marine Corps, historically, both of them have embraced and demanded a fairly rigorous uniform standard of physical abilities. Army Infantry demand everyone in the squad are able to perform basic physical challenges, running, climbing, swimming, digging, crawling, combat, running, and so on. The Navy--of course, not now with the fucking Woke Navy--but in the past, they too required regular physical challenges, carrying men and equipment up and down tight flights of stairwells, working with heavy tools, weapons and ammunition, and of course, being skilled in swimming. They also required a standard of athletics, likewise from every member of the crew, regardless of their particular "job".

That gets into my experience with the Marine Corps policy of "Every man a Rifleman." The Marines of course, likewise demand extremely vigorous physical abilities from everyone--again, regardless of their job or specialty. The standards within the Marine Infantry and Force Recon are much higher, and even more demanding. The Navy Seals, as you mentioned, yes, they too demand some of the highest and most brutal standards, again, for every member of the team.

This experience is all very relevant, because for many members of the military, at least much of the time, we do most everything that professional Adventurers in our games do.

The stupid, the fat, the weak, the slow--and certainly the fucking crippled--are not welcome, not acceptable, and not tolerated.

WHY?

Because people will unnecessarily DIE trying to protect the weak fucks, or get killed while coddling them.

Next, the MISSION. The success of the MISSION requires everyone is pulling their weight, and bringing their "A" game in every way. Minimum standards are simply a baseline--out in the field, in the real world, the Mission will always demand FAR MORE.

Your team simply must be able to all perform very well, and be ready and able to exceed expectations, or the Mission fails.

So, yeah, even in 1E D&D, Wizards are always very welcome, and an excellent asset--but they still must be able to do all the basic physical challenges and wilderness survival and movement required of everyone on the team.

There is no room for the weak, the fat, the slow, the stupid, or the crippled.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK
12
In the opinion of those of you who actually run games, can a wheelchair bound character have an 18 dexterity or equivalent, and does removing the chair alter this in anyway? If say a beholder thanos-sizes the wheelchair out from under your arse are we adjusting your ac or dodge or whatever?
13
Raistlin is portrayed as sickly in the novelization, but if you look at the modules, he has an average score in both strength and constitution.

It’s possible the person you’re quoting is imagining a SEAL team, but I doubt it. In fact, I think it’s a bit of a stretch to go from, “I don’t think any adventuring party even considers a member with 6 strength, 3 hit points, and only one spell per day,” to, “You’re picturing a SEAL team.” One might even call it disingenuous.

Let’s dispense with the strength problem and assume the wizard has average strength. No armor and 1-4 hit points is a big enough problem that the rest of the group has to babysit you, constantly.
14
Can’t pick the lock? Maybe it’s rusted shut.

That sounds suspiciously like a variant of quantum ogres.

I am going to clarify here: if the expert player character has a 90+% chance to pick the lock…AND FAILS THE ROLL… Then perhaps IT WAS NOT DUE TO LACK OF EXPERTISE THAT CAUSE THE FAILURE, but rather it was due to some other circumstance that was beyond the control of the character. 

If you fail the roll, you don’t pick the lock.  That’s the exact opposite of “Quantum Ogres”.

...OR he's just having a "bad day". Even the best of experts can have "one of those days": a normally ace pitcher gets whammied for 8 runs in 3 innings. starting quarterback gets intercepted 5 times and 3 of them score. you get the picture.
15
  NYC CRIME DOWN!!! Come on guys jhkim said so....though it is strange they have the NATIONAL GUARD stationed in the subways....

The National Guard is about optics over a handful of incidents - not about general rates in a city with millions of people and thousands of violent crimes a year. These days, a lot of people understand the world only through outrage at what they see on social media. If a crime gets caught on a video that goes viral, then everyone will be scared of specifically that crime for a few weeks, then they'll forget it and be scared of whatever the next viral video that fear-mongers pass around.

I said that NYC violent crime is lower than it was at the peak rate around 1990, but it is higher now than the low point that it reached in 2017-2018.
16
The RPGPundit's Own Forum / Re: Greta is at it..AGAIN
« Last post by jhkim on Today at 02:25:59 PM »
The lifetime emissions can range from 20% less to 60% less than a gasoline car, depending on how its made and especially on what source you're charging it from.

So, by only comparing lifetime emissions, you are conveniently leaving out the environmental harm done in the process of strip mining for the minerals needed to make the batteries to make the EVs.  You can't be unaware of this problem since GeekyBugle has brought it up several times in detail.  I can only conclude that you are being deliberately disingenuous and deliberately presenting a false view of the costs.  In short, you are arguing in bad faith again.

By "lifetime" I mean end to end, including both production and disposal -- i.e. including the minerals needed for the car body, engine, battery, etc.
17
This came up in another thread - and I'd want to address it without the baggage of the other topic. ForgottenF suggested that he felt like AD&D magic users stretched plausibility that other adventurers would take them into a dungeon.

Every occupation has a certain basic requirements where if you don't fill them, then no matter what your other merits are, you can't do that job. A fantasy adventurer needs to be able to run, climb, swim, sneak, fight and probably ride a horse. They don't need to be the best at any of those things, but if they can't do them at all, they're not qualified to be an adventurer. If they can't do those things physically, they need to be able to reliably produce an equivalent result magically.

You might say "Wait a minute! Lots of D&D characters can't do all those things". Yeah, I think it stretches plausibility that anyone would take a 1st level wizard with 6 strength, 3 HP, no armor and one spell per day with them into a dungeon. The chances are just too high of him either forcing the expedition to stall because he can't traverse the dungeon, or getting his companions killed trying to defend him. The only reason that happens is game convention.
I'm apparently alone in this, but I don't buy that a person who can't withstand physical hardship or defend themselves would succeed long-term as a career adventurer. It's not often an issue in D&D because of a bunch of meta reasons which are external to the fictional world of the game: everything from the way turn-based combat works, to dungeon design, the experience system and which factors are and are not simulated in the rules. That's what I mean by "game convention". Mostly I can let willing suspension of disbelief fill in the gaps, but it does bother me a bit that most fantasy RPGs reward specialization over generalism, just because I personally find playing generalists more fun.

I think it's a matter of taste, but I think there are some differences in viewpoints.

It seems like you're picturing an adventuring party like a SEAL team -- where everyone are highly-trained experts who can do anything and are all self-reliant. But I think AD&D pictured groups more as historical expeditions. They were likely to have a bunch of lesser combatants (henchmen) as well non-combatants like porters, torch-bearers, squires, hirelings, etc. I think of the Lewis and Clark expedition that had a bunch of unmarried soldiers but also boat crew, an trapper/interpreter and his pregnant wife, and an enslaved body servant.

I also question your comment about can't withstand physical hardship. In my experience, most magic users have low Strength but do have high Constitution, and I think of them as being quite tough and able to endure hardship. They're just not very skilled at fighting.

There are exceptions, I'm sure. I never read any Dragonlance fiction, but I understand that Raistlin was portrayed as sickly - and that may have become a stereotype of D&D, but I'm not sure it was part of the original vision. Gandalf was the earlier stereotype for the wizard, and he was technically an extremely tough demigod who wielded a sword on his horse in battle. AD&D magic users weren't Gandalf, for sure, but they weren't necessarily delicate flowers who couldn't endure hardship.
18
One additional thing. They apparently missed the memo that 5+ page backstories filled with trauma dumping were supposed to be a joke.



Who the hell writes a 5 page back story for a character that could be dissolved by green slime at 1st level? Or was this a Radiant Citadel type game?
19
I wonder if this is to encourage people to buy more current D&D products?

I legitimately believe this is the entire reason that they are claiming "it's not a new edition".

I've paid a good amount of attention to the playtest, and while I have no idea what's coming out in September, they have really changed a lot of how the game balance works.  For instance, the feats, which previously were just all generally meant to be worth +2 stats (with some being way better or way worse) are now being lined up into lesser feats and greater feats, and the idea is that you can't get the greater feats until like 4th level.  Even those greater feats are nowhere near as powerful as the top feats used to be in 5.0.  So the feats are nerfed! 
But all the "martial" classes, are buffed.  This is received pretty well as 5.0 has this as a common criticism (most of them don't know that this critique kinda goes back to early D&D and has always had some validity), because 5.0 lets casters move out of hiding, cast, and move back into hiding, depending on the shape of the place- a far cry from having to declare your action before initiative is rolled and risk interruption or your spell not being aimed at the correct target, or the scenario changing a lot.  Anyway, the playtest stuff had more impressive martial class scaling.

Ok so, 5.5 comes out.  It's all the same version, so you grab the variant human from 5.0, use it to take a really strong feat like 5.0 sharpshooter, and then take your first level in 5.5 fighter.  Now you have a character more powerful than can be created in either version, but it's all the same version, right?

No way.  They have to ramp up power options to sell books, and they can't let you pick and choose between versions.  There will be some kind of creation rules to prevent that.  By contrast, your 5.5 PHB built guy using something from Tasha's Cauldron Of Retcons And Apologies will be allowed, because they haven't reprinted that one yet, or... something.

So when they say that it's all the same version:
1- They want you to keep buying the existing products now.
2- They probably have a plan to keep you buying the non-directly-replaced existing products as well, later.

But I think (1) is enough to explain this obvious lie they keep pushing.
20
Even the Cleric is just a D&D-ism that is barely retained anyway as Bards now have Arcane healing.
In 5e, Bards are neither traditional arcane or divine casters.  From the 5e PHB:

Quote
Bards say that the multiverse was spoken into existence, that the words of the gods gave it shape, and that echoes of these primordial Words of Creation still resound throughout the cosmos . The music of bards is an attempt to snatch and harness those echoes, subtly woven into their spells and powers.

The bard spell list is actually pretty sparse in the PHB (some later supplements add a lot of other stuff to it, and therefore, a lot of power to the bard).  Bards are intended to supplement these spares spells with access to Magical Secrets at high levels, letting them grab a few spells from any other classes in the game with no ability to change your mind on this mini-multiclass power.  In any event, this "words of creation" bit explains why they get access to such a unique set of spells, and why their spell list leaves off so much baseline.

Also while 5e bards and clerics are both full casters that are intended to use a weapon more than a wizard does, clerics have better access to offensive cantrips and at mid levels either get a boost to cantrip damage or their single attack a round.  The bard has to actively pick a martial themed subclass to be able to really hold his own without expending spell slots. 

Out of all the people who say "I just want the core three (or the core four) classes" the only time I've seen anyone create anything with that idea that I personally want to play or run is Kevin Crawford, creator of Stars Without Number and Worlds Without Number.  He also doesn't just limit you to his core three classes (warrior, expert, and either psychic or mage, depending), he also gives you "partial" classes that split the difference.  His splat content for classes are usually partial things as well. 

Mostly when I hear that, I just walk on by, because someone advocating for a game with just fighter, mage, rogue, cleric is one paladin player away from learning why there's more than just four classes.  The druid started as a subclass of cleric, but it sure works wonderfully once it's been established as its own class, as it can stop wasting space on things you can't do that a normal cleric can, like turn undead.

Hyperborea and ACKS both offer up the four standard classes, then spend a decent amount of pages giving you other classes too.  The obvious implication is that if you want to run the game and limit it to the basic classes, you can, and they are an intended and well designed part of the game (versus the power creep we saw historically, where the base clasess got sorta overwhelmed by later offerings).

But a game with just the four base classes, I just don't need.  I'm not gonna run that game.
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