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Messages - Jaeger

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That article does not get off to a good start: "Lead designer Wes Schneider told Polygon that the goal was to move beyond the derivative tropes that have plagued the Ravenloft setting in the past."

Derivative tropes exist because they're time-tested, and they're precisely the things that people loved about the setting. So they're ditching that, and replacing it with what's going to end up as a new of set of derivative tropes, because anyone who thinks they're so original that they're not going to use derivative tropes is deluding themselves with hubris.

This. Tropes work.

So called "Originality" does not = Quality.

How do you even depict drow in live action?

Plan A: Hire Pierre Trudeau's wife's son.

Pan B: Use WOTC's depiction of Drow in Tashas Cauldron of Wank, which changes their skin tone to a pale grey.

By all accounts this is a permanent art direction change in the depiction of Drow for D&D...

When there are multiple combat systems you like in TTRPGs, but you can only choose one variant for a game...

Along with playtesting, is there a method to help determine which system would work best? Moreover, is allowing multiple variants within the same product a good idea?


What game system will you be using?

What Genre are you trying to emulate?

Once Hollywood actors and eventually the Hollywood machine get involved, the woke/SJW/flavor of the week agenda will be in full force.

This is a good thing.

They will destroy it's relative popularity before it can take a foothold with normies.

People are starting to reject the nonsense. Pedowood has been taking it in the shorts for years, and crying about "toxic fans" when their woke movies don't do well...

The problem is that all the media companies are converged, and have access to tons of cash through their respective megacorps.

It will take a long time before they really start to feel the pinch. And they will have to go bankrupt or damn near before they change their woke ways.

It's gonna be a long ride. Stock up on popcorn...

Good, the best thing that can happen to the hobby is for people to realize WotC/DnD are not the hobby....

I tend to agree, but this is a slow process as D&D has no prominent non d20 system competitors.

The second best thing that can happen to the hobby is for Woke of the Coast/Paizo/Stupid Hat/etc to crash and burn. Only the unwoke compaqnies will remain, and the OSR because it's decentralized.

Gamers are very IP loyal, and in spite of wokeness they are loathe to leave their beloved IP behind.

I think Baizuo will gradually fade, they will keep going to the complex system side of things with their D&D clone and eventually drive new players away like Gurps/Hero.  This process will accelerate if a company makes a game that can take the number 2 RPG spot from them.

Stupid Hat is literally based around 2-3 designers making games that they publish. Once those guys creativity dries up they will fade.

WOTC/D&D... They have Magic money to cover for all kinds of nonsense. Buckle up Kids, they will do what they want for a long time.

At this point it will have to take an exceptional series of own goals by WOTC (worse than 4e) for D&D to be dethroned as the #1 RPG.

I think Jeff Goldblum will be good for the hobby if this catches on.


Because more people will start to see these critical role style shows for what they are: Fake.

If 'name' talent becomes more of a feature the production values and story aspects of these shows will get to the point that it will be quite straightforward to point out the many discrepancies between the shows and and actual session of D&D.

Actors of this level will not like participating in amateur hour. The CR shows will drift even more towards full-on 'radio play' territory with less and less randomization allowed to 'interfere' with the story.

Not that they have much randomization now - even CR has house rules that are even more generous with rest times and actions to cast healing spells than RAW 5e.

About the only things I plan to change are some of the prices (armour is too expensive), the attack bonuses of the Fighter (too high too quick, IMO), and maybe add in the old weapon vs. AC modifiers for fun.

Armor was expensive as hell back in the day, the prices are about right.

IMHO - I think it would be worth playing the system RAW for a few sessions to see how things shake out before you house rule right away. L&D does operate on a different PC play paradigm than other OSR games, which are a more direct take on D&D style play.

Weapon Vs. AC mods do seem like something that would make sense to add for the right group.

Ehhh Savage Worlds is still pretty popular.

But Savage Worlds has an "easy mode" of being able to run plot point campaigns. A GM may use Savage Worlds as a tool kit to something else, but does not have too.

In Savage Worlds defense* they have been very savvy about having complete games with well known IP attached to their system.

To say nothing of the ease of use differences between the relatively thin SW rules set and the GURPS tome.

* This by is no means a caveat to the fact that Savage Worlds still Fucking Sucks.


So why use 2D10 over 3D6? Serious my opinion, one of the perks of GURPS is that you can get dice for it pretty much anywhere. Is it just because of the smoother curve?

IMHO The 3d6 bell curve is almost too perfect for rpg’s.

The cutoff points for skills where you will almost always fail a roll or almost always succeed are too predictable.

The flatter pyramid curve of 2d10 stretches the probabilities out so PC’s will have a wider range where their skill numbers are relevant but do not tend to deliver automatic results.

FFG might have had much the same issue when they tried to pull the narrative dice system out of Star Wars and put it out as Genesys. I don't know about its overall success, but with the players I've spoken to, they put up with the dice system because of Star Wars rather than going to Star Wars for the narrative dice. For them, Genesys just didn't have what they wanted.

Genesys is done as a system without Star Wars to back it.  No one likes proprietary dice.

Star Wars is one of three RPG IP’s that sell almost regardless of the system attached to it. (Conan, Lord of the Rings, Star Wars.)

Most of their previous system iterations are nowhere now that they do not have the IP behind them. IMHO the d6 system had the most promise, but WEG ran into other issues.

…  Most modern gamers don’t want to handle this customization and turn to something ready to go.  All of the generic toolbox’s have the same issue….

My sneaking suspicion is that modern gamers don’t have as much of the time to do the DIY that was popular in the 80s and 90s due to all the distractions of technology in our lives. Publishers of these generic systems need to come up with a way to streamline the content to fit modern players.

I’ll quibble a bit…

I think that you are right about toolkits being too generic, but I think that DIY has taken a different turn due to the big effect of the OGL on the hobby.

Most people want to do an established game like D&D, but… (Insert my better house rule here.)

Why turn to a generic system where you do all the heavy lifting when you can pick up the OGL or SRD of a system that already has 80% of what you want and tune to taste.

Path of least resistance and all that…

No, GURPS is on Amazon print on demand.  SJG has largely abandoned retail GURPS.  I'm not going to disagree with a decision based on sales data I don't have.  The way they're handling GURPS is the way they find it makes them the most money.

So Gurps is done then.

World of Darkness went to a POD model a few years after they got bought out by a video game company. "Handling their IP the way they find it makes them the most money."

And it went downhill from there.

The perennial #2 RPG in the hobby for over a decade now barely registers as a fart in 5e's wake.

Although evidently you can find people who play V5.

Powered by GURPS stuff like Vorkosigian and Discworld haven't been huge successes. ....

They made what about who?

The fact that those were done at all shows how distant SJG had become from the mainstream RPG hobby.

I've been putting my simple 3d6 stuff together after shooting my mouth off in a GURPS thread on tbp.  ...Still, I've got to admit that between this and the tbp WIR Banestorm thread, I'm beginning to think there might be sufficient interest to put it together.  It's just, I can't please everyone and GURPS is a lot of different things to different people.

FWIW I feel GeekyBugle is right.

Whatever you do: Don't try to please everyone.

Take a risk, try to deliver something different to catch peoples interest.

Best of luck.


In that thread, he basically says there will not be a 5th edition for Gurps, unless the RPG market drastically changes, and the popularity for Gurps increases. It's not really a surprise, but hearing it from Phil makes it real.

What I find hard to believe is why they won't Kickstart it. The diehard fans alone would fund it…

The RPG market did drastically change. It was called the OGL.

They made no move to stay relevant, and now they are where they are.

Continual catering to their diehard fans and ignoring the market at large is a big part of why they have fallen out of the conversation for go-to Rpg systems.

   OTOH, is anyone seeing any spillover growth from D&D's huge success? Conventional wisdom was that a growing D&D feeds into the rest of the industry as well, but with the new emphasis on 'lifestyle branding', I'm not so sure that's true any more.

I agree – I think that the percentage of “spill-over” is much less than a decade or two ago.

WOTC has finally figured out with 5e how to market things and make the OGL/SRD work for them.

They have been aided by the fact that all of D&D's former non-d20 mainstay competitors have mismanaged themselves into dwindling fan bases.

I'd disagree. The various VTT software solutions have benefited greatly from 5e and they almost all support lesser known rpgs.  That may be the best way to grow small title rpgs as it gives you an easy way to find/introduce new players.

If you are tryng to grab market share with a new RPG, making your stuff VTT supported is almost a must. Lots of casual games get played on VTT as opposed to game-stores these days. And not just due to Kung-Flu reasons.

I met a guy that was involved in turning GURPS into an RPG for Interplay. It was off the record so I will not make any names.

Basically, he told me that the whole agreement fell apart because "It was just impossible to work with SJ." …

Given the success of the franchise, I always wondered how much money SJ lost by being an ass.

Quell surprise…

Also lol at GURPS being slimmed down.  ….

Even GURPS ”lite” could be streamlined.

In the 4e lite there are several places where they have you dividing by decimal places for things like movement, Range, throwing range, wounding modifiers…

All that decimal shit needs to go. New players and especially GM’s see that crap and the book goes right back on the store shelf, or they do not click “add to cart” after seeing that crap in a preview.

Gurps needs a fundamental rethink about what kind of system it wants to be.

And I’ll be the heretic and say it: moving to 2d10 instead of 3d6 would be better for the system.

No, GURPS lite is full on GURPS, it's actually a really dense book.
Correct. It's basically Gurps Less, the same rules as the core just less of them. But the real problem with Gurps Lite is there are no spells in it, even though "magic" is referenced several times. …

A "Dungeon Fantasy Lite" could capture some 5E players if it was done right. What does SJG have to lose at this point? 4E came out almost 17 years ago. There are probably fans who would do the work for free.

Provided the production values and Art are equal to what we see for 5e and other games it could be worth a chance.

DF and TFT were not it: 1989 called and wanted their production values back. They may play perfectly fine but they look dated and that is not a good look for catching the eye of new players/GM’s.

That being said, SJG may just not see the investment giving them any meaningful return. Because it would be a big risk of resources.

It is not just enough to release a good game – it will need to be supported; I.e. Modules, Adventure Paths, the periodic “Tome of everything equivalent”, oh and a setting that doesn’t suck to go with it all. A minimum of four quality releases a year, every year.

The cost of real competition is high.

I can totally understand SJG- taking a look how much resources such a project would take, and just saying: "Fuck it, we're out."

And, to be honest, even if they had money to burn; I think that they just don't have it in them to take a step back, re-evaluate the system from the top down, and then take the plunge with a focused game.

I walked away from Hero over a decade ago. Key phrase being "walked away".

They are doing more damage to themselves than any of us can inflict. And I've reached the point of having better things to do with my gaming time and Internet time than obsess over the corpse of an old friend, no matter how once-beloved.

I don't.

Typing out a one or two sentence missive, and clicking on 'post' to kick HERO's dead donkey once again is no trouble at all.

In replying to your posts, I have been given the opportunity and pleasure of spitting* on their rotting corpse 3 more times.

Thank you.

*edit: ( I don't want people to get the wrong idea and assume that I would spit on the rotting corpse of hero games if it was on fire. That is what Gasoline and Marshmallows are for. )

There's making the rubble bounce, which I endorse, and there's making more rubble out of the rubble because the rubble is not bouncing on its own.

Salting the earth, grinding their houses to dust, and placing curses upon their progeny also never gets old.

The rubble bouncing will continue until morale improves.

No reason to give the current hero games even a glimpse of daylight.


But the dead horse hasn't been beaten nearly enough...

And it never will.

The beating of dead horses never gets old.

Making the Rubble Bounce is its own reward.

It turns out that Champions Now wasn't the original product pitched. That there was another new version of Champions pitched that was intended to be a more user-friendly version. That in the end, got rejected in favor of Champions Now.

They were charging the author of that previous pitch a $1000 licensing fee for the privilege of writing a new version of the game for them. And he actually had the money ready when they rejected him.

So what do we have with Champions Now? A game the company doesn't support at all. Something I regard as a straight-up failure of a product. Something they Kickstarted and threw all of the money that was pledged away to produce.

The greed and stupidity at play here were staggering. They threw away a guaranteed success for something that never would succeed.

Epic Fail.

Hero/Champions is  dead.

Yeah, yeah, I hear you... There are fans out there who still play it, and you know a guy who, or are aware of this local scene that, blah blah blah blah...

Hey! Hero games even has a websites where you can buy product!

No one cares.

Because the people who own the HERO IP made sure of it.

If Hero games never published a new product in the future, no one would notice.

If they were to go bankrupt and disappear with no announcements; no one would think to ask about them.

No one is talking about what the next new hotness from hero games is going to be.

Because nobody gives a shit.

They have made themselves just that insignificant in the RPG hobby.


Well, here is a Russian woman doing a variety of exercises and maneuvers. Very agile and coordinated!

What Dexterity score do you think she would have in D&D terms?

Huh, What?

All I saw was a fit woman in skin-tight, form-fitting clothing doing all kinds of wonderful flexible things.

Her "Dexterity score" was not the kind of Score that first came to mind...

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