Cool. So, is everyone on board with the cloned soldiers / Religious Orders for predominant military? And Paranoid for the planetary attitude towards the Vaylen?

If so, let's move onto Primary Production and Regulation and Quarantine. Once we're done that, it's just a name, some figures of note, and we're ready to start character burning.

Primary Production is what role your planet plays in the interstellar or intrasystem economy. What does it export, what does it make the most of, etc.

The choices:

Agriculture

Industrial Capital - factories, robots, construction equipment, vehicles, (civilian) spacefaring vessels, any sort of heavy machinery.

Military Capital - Guns, bombs, ships, assault sleds, spaceships, missiles, artillery and space stations.

Raw Materials

Refined Goods - Consumer-grade products - toasters, ray pistols, space DVDs, flying cars, kitchen sinks and other such stuff.

Services or Skilled Labour - Craftsmen, financial services, specialised training, information hubs, etc.

Unskilled Labour



Quarantine:

Most planets have at least a limited quarantine to prevent weird space diseases that no one has an immunity to from coming in on the next ship.

There are four kinds of quarantine, but only three that are available to us at our tech level.

No Quarantine - You lands your ship and you takes your chances.

Standard Quarantine - Immunisation for travelers, livestock and pets quarantined for a period after shipment, some government interference or restrictions on sick travelers. Doesn't do a damn thing to spot the Vaylen.

Advanced Quarantine - Everybody gets screened for illnesses and infections coming and going; Dogs, cats and presidents included. It does not look for Vaylen specifically, but does have a chance to spot them. It does prevent the importation of the Naiven (the worms before they're implanted in human bodies).

Quarantine can apply to: Fresh fruit and food, livestock, pets, tourists/travelers, off-world labor, medical machinery or cryonic machinery. For a standard quarantine, two or three items are quarantined. For an advanced quarantine, everything _but_ two or three items are quarantined. Things that are quarantined can be harder to get with Resources tests.



Regulation:

There are four levels of regulation of the economy. Regulation will impact the difficulty of Resources Tests for everyone (PCs and NPCs) significantly unless you have contacts with the black market or with the regulatory body.

Unregulated - Caveat Emptor. It's a free market untouched by the government, and there is no black market.

Loosely Regulated - The government dabbles a little bit. It might prevent fraudulent advertising, restrict some dangerous goods (like weapons) or keep immigrant labour out while letting the natives run wild. There's a small black market.

Moderately Regulated - The government monitors, taxes and restricts the flow of goods to protect their own economic interests. "Most Merchant Leagues and Communes are Moderately Regulated Economies." There's a large black market, supported by organised crime. There may also be shortages from things like bank runs, natural disasters and wars.

Tightly Regulated - Even basic things are regulated tightly by the government. There is a huge black market. There are frequent shortages for those without the right permits and licenses.

Depending upon what type of regulation we choose, there's a list of things we pick from. The tighter the regulation, the more things are unavailable, and the more things are regulated (and thus are harder to get).

Military Capital, Advanced Quarentine, Tightly regulated commerce.

Hm. If we go with "military capital" the clone soldiers could be part of that. Maybe they're not only used for domestic conflicts, but produced under contract for the Dunedin?

Here's a somewhat radical suggestion: Most of the planetary population (everyone other than the elite) is made up of clones, whether genetically engineered or not, derived from Dunedin genetic stock. The original Darikahn populace only remains in the space miner communes, the pirates, and the nobles. Maybe the Dunedin really _did_ use biological weapons (as per the suggestion about the Darikahn accusing the Dunedin of using the Vaylen as such) that wiped out most the rest, but left the industrial structures behind.

Industrial Capital seems to be the best fit to me, in terms of sticking with our industrial wasteland and enormous factories dependent on the resources flowing in from the asteroid belt. It also justifies the number of civilian spaceships needed for a system-wide civilization and serious piracy, whereas I think military capital would make it very difficult for outlaws and pirates to withstand the authorities. It also makes a lot of sense given the corporate government.

I'm not really too bothered about Quarantine. I'd go for Standard, simply because it's the standard and seems appropriate for a corporate government - some sensible and pragmatic restrictions, but nothing that would overly cripple trade and commerce.

Regulation: Loose. I'm thinking the Merchant League is something of a laissez faire state, protecting intellectual property rights and cracking down on fraud, but otherwise letting the 'invisible hand' of the market run free.

Oh, and I can't say I'm too keen on the idea of the populace of the planet being mostly clones - it makes things a bit monochrome for my liking.

Quote from: Illegible SmudgeOh, and I can't say I'm too keen on the idea of the populace of the planet being mostly clones - it makes things a bit monochrome for my liking.

Me neither.

I vote for Industrial Capital (with Military Capital a close second), Advanced Quarrantine, and Moderate Regulation.

For the last, why?

QuoteTightly regulated conomies are typically found in either aged, potent bureaucracies, in police states or under religious guise.

QuoteMost Merchant leagues and Communes are Moderately Regulated economies.  They monitor, tax and restrict the flow of certain goods and services within their domain to protect their own economic interests.

I feel the moderate regulation fits better, although tight regulation certainly does have dystopian flavor, and loose regulation would make things easier for us (in addition to having favorable disposition bonuses).

I'm with Illegible Smudge on industrial capital. It seems to fit with what we talked about and in the game its only one step to push the planet from industrial to military capital as an infection move by either side.  

I would go for above standard quarantine and regulation. I like the idea that the Merchant League is less corporations and more a bunch of monopolists (not to say the two can't be the same but with the emphasis on the latter). Their main market is outside the system and the perks of the job are fleecing the people inside the system. As long as the industrial capital is produced they can rake as much cash as they like how they like. This explains the higher levels of regulation and quarantine, plus the latter as a result of Church pressure against the 'spacers'. It also could help explain the low tech index, the disparity in access to tech and the retro/clunky feel to tech people have mentioned.

I like the idea of a large clone population (also explains high quarantine - one disease could wipe em all out!) but perhaps have it as a privileged class while the Darikhan on the planet form the underclass

So I would vote for industrial capital, advanced quarantine (these people are paranoid), and moderate to tightly regulated (these people are paranoid and corrupt). The spacers probably have less regulation but given the relative scale of the impact of the planet's regulation means scarcity for them as well.  

Lots of clones are good but not the whole planet. Perhaps toiling away in factory-cathedrals and drilling for crusades keeping themselves seperate as far as possible from the irreligious merchants, darikhan and even other Dunedin of dubious heritage. Of course being surrounded by all those high walls and security doors keeps the scum out but leaves them trapped when the Vaylen crash the system and start hulling

Quote from: NiallSI like the idea of a large clone population (also explains high quarantine - one disease could wipe em all out!) but perhaps have it as a privileged class while the Darikhan on the planet form the underclass

[...]

Lots of clones are good but not the whole planet. Perhaps toiling away in factory-cathedrals and drilling for crusades keeping themselves seperate as far as possible from the irreligious merchants, darikhan and even other Dunedin of dubious heritage. Of course being surrounded by all those high walls and security doors keeps the scum out but leaves them trapped when the Vaylen crash the system and start hulling

re: clones

I prefer them as cotars1 and sodales2, making up the lower ranks and middle-management of the church and pretty much the entire command structure of the sodality3 right up to (but not inclusive of) the Cotar Fomas4.  And, of course, there are psychic clone inquisitors, whom even their non-clone superiors find extremely off-putting.

I like the idea of the clones as a privileged class, but given that I would prefer the factories to be staffed by the oppressed underclass instead (with the possible except of secret or highly sensitive facilities).

Here's how I picture it: the official church line is that the clones are holy, being consecrated in creation to the work of the church (as the Born on the Wheel trait).  However, there's open contempt in both directions between the clones and the merchant league, and secret contempt towards the clones from the upper echelons of the church.  They're useful, but considered somehow less than human.

Plus, there've got to be scary psychic clone inquisitors.

----
1. Priests.
2. Soldiers in the religious military.
3. Planetary religious military.
4. Head of the planetary religious military.  This role is filled by a lord-pilot in service to the church.

How does hgjs' position on the clones sound to everyone? I like it a lot.


For my choices, I'll go with Industrial Capital, Advanced Quarantine and Moderate Regulation.

Werekoala> It's possible to change the primary production of the planet during play, so keep that idea for Military Capital in your back pocket, and just before the invasion comes, remind everyone to make that a "phase objective".

I think we've now got a majority on Industrial Capital and Advanced Quarantine, so we've just got to come to a consensus on regulation.

I like moderate regulation for similar reasons to hgjs. Moderate regulation lets us have a monopolistic Merchant League that occasionally bows to church pressure, but doesn't force us to constantly have to figure out some way to skirt the regulations to get the goodies we want.

Speaking of which, here's the list of things that can be regulated:

Class 1

Immigrant Labour
Military Manufacturing
Psychology
Slavery

Class 2

Utilities (Power, water, etc.)
Medical Practice / Healthcare
Pharmaceuticals
Non-military Weaponry
Livestock
Sex Trade
Recreational Drugs

Class 3

Food Preparation (e.g. space halal, space kosher)
Waste Disposal
Marriage
Music

Tight regulation means three Class 1 items, two Class 2 items, and one Class 3 item must be regulated. Beyond that, anything on the list that the planet produces as part of its primary production must be regulated.

Moderate regulation is two Class 1 items and one-two Class 2 items. If anything in Class 1 or Class 2 is part of the planet's primary production (Industrial Capital) it must be regulated.

Loose is one-two items from the Class 1 list, and nothing else.

Remember, picking something from the list to be regulated generally means you want me to bring it into the game somehow, or you plan to do so yourself.

I'd vote for Military Manufacturing and Immigrant Labour from Class 1 to be regulated, and Utilities from Class 2.

I'm with hgjs as well on the clones, thats a great idea, and moderate regulation.

Class 1

Immigrant Labour
Military Manufacturing

Class 2

I'd go for non-military weaponry in keeping with the idea there are still resentment and distrust. Also gives us a reason to have melee weapons.  Or livestock as this planet is very polluted.

Perhaps being paranoid we should choose to regulate some class 3 things - marriage maybe, generally a contentious subject in a feudal type society perhaps coming from the methods used to of defeat the Vaylen from the first infection. All marriages need to be sanctioned with proof that both parties are human. These days its a means of income for BW ministers and doctors and a useful tool to block political opponenets.

1:
Immigrant Labour, Military Manufacturing

2:
Non-military Weaponry

3:
Marriage

I'm cool with tacking marriage on. Maybe marriage is strictly regulated because of the clone population? Certain recessive diseases are more common, while mixed marriages between clones and the womb-bred are nearly impossible?

Ok, let's move onto the very last bit before we burn up characters: Figures of Note.

Figures of Note are the major players in the world. Their job is to roll during Infection mechanics that determine the course of the conflict over the entire world. We need three for the human side (they can be PCs) and three for the Vaylen side. Remember, FoNs on the other side are going to be major villains of the story. You're also going to need to have a connection to at least one FoN who isn't a PC.

So, anyone who wants their PC to be a FoN get your post in now, and give us a concept. Anyone with a good idea for a villain, jump in now too. Remember, short and sweet - one line concepts are best. A name is good too, though don't worry if you don't have one. We don't need PCs for all three FoNs on the PCs' side, but I kinda want them to be.

Werekoala> I'd recommend not being a FoN. Your PC can still be very important, and contribute to the macrocosmic conflict without being one (there are usually more than three PCs, after all). It mostly just tells us who hucks the dice at one specific point in the game. On the other hand, feel free to suggest villains or important opposition figures you might want to have a connection to.

Here's my idea:

Piers Harken - A ruthless and ambitious psychologist clone who is the Merchant League's vice president of security and espionage (Vaylen side).

Our world so far:

Physical:
Outworld
Partial Life Supporting
Predominantly Land
Broad Range of Conditions

Cultural:
Dunedin
Merchant League Government
Low Index
Paranoid
Militant Religious Orders

Factions:
Psychologist Foundation
Rebel Line / Royalist
Organised Crime
Communes
Theocratic Institutions

Economic:
Produces Industrial Capital
Moderate Regulation - Immigrant Labour, Military Manufacturing, Non-Military Weaponry, Marriage
Advanced Quarantine

Colour:

A tidal-locked world covered with factories, cathedrals and other sprawling, massive works.

Run by a Merchant League who bought a charter from Dunedin crusaders by underwriting the invasion.

The Dunedin crusaders conquered the Darikahn population with clone troops, using bioweapons.

The Theocracy has control of the clone troops and uses the hot and cold zones to exile religious dissidents.

The Theocracy and the League have psychic clones at their disposal. The original Darikahn nobles are still around.

There are anarchic space miners who aid and abet space pirates and heretics.

Clones and non-clones form distinct social groups within the planetary society.

Edit:

Disposition:

Vaylen
Infiltration: 23
Usurpation: 25
Invasion: 22

Human
Infiltration: 21
Usurpation: 24
Invasion: 30

NB: We should start thinking about what phase we want to play.

We need:

A name, some Figures of Note.

Sorry I've been absent the last few days - I'm in the final week of exams for the semester. It looks like we've already moved on, but for the record, I've no problem with Industrial Capital or Advanced Quarantine, and I seem to have been comprehensively outvoted on Regulations, so Moderate seems a reasonable compromise.

However, I am concerned about some of the proposed goods to be regulated. Unfortunately, I seem to be out of step with the group here, but I may as explain my concerns, in roughly increasing order of concern.

Immigrant Labour: Why? It's an industrial world run by merchant lords and corporations. Surely they'd want as much cheap labour for their factories as possible, keeping wages depressed by bringing in desperate immigrant labour. Plus immigrants are always a nice way to deflect the population's anger and discontent against the outsiders stealing their jobs and away from the factory bosses. And while immigrant labour is an obvious way for the Vaylen to infiltrate the system, do people really want to have storylines about people smuggling and human trafficking? I'm not so much opposed to this as wondering why people want to make an issue of it.

Military Manufacture: Admittedly, this makes a fair amount of sense, but it does make it far more difficult to have armed pirate ships and militarized civilian ships. I guess you can handle the latter in game, with the communes arming themselves as a maneuver, and there is always the black market, but if you want pirate ships aplenty and that Privateer feel in the asteroids (as I certainly do), outlawing military weapons makes that unlikely. This also brings me back to my earlier concern about having both anarchic space stations and an industrial planet comprising the setting together - if the stations are as free and independent as we have them in the colour, then it becomes difficult to deal with questions like regulation, since we effectively have two very different societies.

Non-Military Weapons: All the points from military manufacture apply here and more. This one I am strongly opposed to. A proliferation of small arms is essential to that freedom loving space miner / pirate culture, and given the cross-over between mining operations utilizing lasers and explosives, it'd be we within the capabilities of the Communes to manufacture small arms. Plus, I really like having small arms available to PCs in games. There's a reason I just about never play any modern era game and that's the regulation and prohibition of personal weapons by modern governments (America aside), and the stifling effect on the prospects for adventure and excitement. I sure as hell want every pirate and free citizen out on the belt to have a pistol slung at their belt, and I want revolutionaries on the surface to have some small arms too. I want a world that can easily descend into violence and chaos on the streets.

So what are my alternatives? How about Psychology, Slavery and Utilities? The first makes a lot of sense to me, if the Church wants to keep it as a symbol of divine blessing or whatever, burning anyone who exhibits it outside of the Church as an evil sinner or heretic (this also has a nice 40k ring). That also makes it a good source of conflict, since it's likely people will want to play Psychologists outside of the Church's auspices. Slavery because the planet has already tapped out immigrant labour, and the factory bosses still want more cheap and reliable labour, but this puts them in conflict with the Church, which considers slavery to be a sin.

Utilities because they are going to be valuable commodities both in the industrial hives and in the space stations, meaning that regulation is probably vital to avoid shortages. Of course, this also leaves open plenty of opportunity for exploitation of this control, either in terms of Total Recall style shutting off the supply of air or electricity to rebellious districts, or in the old mood altering chemicals in the water-supply (put there by either anarchists or the government). Oh, and I have no problem with marriage being thrown in as well.

Concerning Clones: I quite like hgjs' ideas on clones, though I'm not so sure on the psychic inquisitors. I rather like the idea that dissidents and heretics are arrested by the familiar blank faces of brainwashed clone soldiers, but they really know they're in trouble when they find themselves plonked at a desk opposite a real human (yes, clones are real humans too, but you know what I mean), because the actual Inquisitors are all human. Maybe because the secret of instilling psychic ability has been lost, and so these people have to be recruited as individuals. Or maybe the Church doesn't quite trust the clones enough to give them that power...they make useful servants, but many of the higher ups are still scared of the power they represent. Either way, the point is that Inquisitors and Psychologists are special, individuals rather than faceless masses. I just think that makes them more interesting.

Edit: We also need to decide on which goods are not quarantined. My vote is for medical and cryonic machinery - why would you? They're not going to carry disease.

I'm happy to swap Immigrant Labour for Slavery with the Church being actively opposed to it - nice to give it some positive aspects.

As to military and non-military weapons my view is that these are regulated in a manner not unlike today. Where the government is strong - on the planet's most habitable bits, the LaGrange stations, wherever the church is, then these things are proscribed. Where the law is unable to force its way then they are more freely available. I also don't see it as a situation where these things are not produced at all, perhaps they are but only for off-world use, or perhaps they are just really expensive. In the game it just adds difficulties to the resources rolls. Finally I see it as a issue of scale - the space stations may be little munition hives but in a system wide sense the planet's attitude is what affects overall availability and cost because the main buyers - Dunedin and the Church only deal with the authorities.

However as the person who suggested non-military weapons, I'm happy to swap for utilities. I can definetly see water being a precious commodity. I do feel Industrial Capital fits the world better though and see the move to a war footing as something to be done in game.

Is regulation of goods one of the things a player can use their final vote on? I don't have the book with me.

Figure of Note

Cotar-Doctor Emlyn Grange: Emlyn is the Head of Genetic Regulation and Standards Board, the department that authorises all marriages within the system and oversees clone production. As such he has access to everyone's medical records. It also monitors for signs of individuals acting against their destiny by meddling with their genetics. Pious and fairly incorruptible (Human side)

Pseudoephedrine seems to have anticipated my idea for a character of my own, but I am still thinking of someone in security/espionage for the Merchant League. Perhaps now as a member of a Young Turk's group that is disatissfied with the way that security is handled.