I also don't see the problem of keeping space stations and the ilk in the game. From memory travel in BE is meant to be handwaved with the higher the tech index the longer the distance to be handwaved. At low index my reading is that travel across the solar system is analagous to intercontinental travel today. And even if it isn't strictly so in the game I don't see the problem with making it so.

At this point the main impact is deciding if we are going to 'spend' a faction point on them. Otherwise they are just colour at the moment and if we don't develop them much in the game then I don't think we've lost anything.

I also like the idea of the planet being reasonably cosmopolitan with lots of traders and parties coming and going and plenty of space pilots faciliate this.

Hmm... okay, not using the official terminology but just firing from the hip based on what I've read so far, here's my view:

Theocratic rule of a dystopian industrialized tide-locked world. Its tide-locked intentionally (in an earlier era) for industrial reasons: nearside is essentially covered with massive solar arrays and focusing mirrors being used to power... something. Thinking along the lines of the Star Forge from "Knights of the Old Republic" on a smaller scale. Maybe its defunct now, or maybe only partially works, or could work again if anyone knew how to get it going. Farside is used for waste disposal as well as disposal of political and religious heretics, leading to an interesting "rebel" problem. Technology is functional, gothic, and bleak. Grav tech is flavor-only. No nanotech.

Howzzat?

The idea of harvesting the sun's power is a great idea. Now we just need to figure out what they're doing with that power. Maybe they're powering thousands of space elevators and factories?

As to the government, I favour either a Merchant League or a Military Dictatorship. Don't forget that we can introduce alternate power groups in the Factions stage (which I'm putting off to the end) - a commune representing the space miners, a royalist line if anyone wants to play a noble, theocratic institutions, a helpful imperial court, etc.

But I think Merchant League or Military Dictatorship are the two I like the most at this point for the actual dominant government. The Merchant League if we want a more diffuse kind of power, the Military Dictatorship if we want to have the dictator appear as a figure of note for the PCs to win over, overthrow, or compete for the favour of.

Illegible> I think we can fit the pirate lord in. Don't worry. I really want those space stations.

Quote from: WerekoalaTheocratic rule of a dystopian industrialized tide-locked world. Its tide-locked intentionally (in an earlier era) for industrial reasons: nearside is essentially covered with massive solar arrays and focusing mirrors being used to power... something. Thinking along the lines of the Star Forge from "Knights of the Old Republic" on a smaller scale. Maybe its defunct now, or maybe only partially works, or could work again if anyone knew how to get it going. Farside is used for waste disposal as well as disposal of political and religious heretics, leading to an interesting "rebel" problem. Technology is functional, gothic, and bleak. Grav tech is flavor-only. No nanotech. ?

I like it. And I hadn't really been considering Theocracy, but I'm not sure why not - this is a Dunedin world after all. I could see that being very cool, with a neat spin on the whole space miners thing - the asteroid belt as a haven not only for pirates and free-thinkers but also for heretics and atheists fleeing religious persecution. You could have little Puritan and Quaker-like mining communities existing uneasily side by side with outlaws and pirates, hiding out from roving Inquisition patrols. Meanwhile, on the planet, the punishment for apostasy and other religious crimes is being dumped in either the hot zone or cold zone as a kind of trial by punishment.

As for the rulership itself, it could be run by the equivalent of the Knights Hospitaller, the world being an ancient stronghold granted to the Knights to defend with the support of the Mundus Humanitas. It could even be a Darikahn conquest, as NiallS suggests, though if that is the case, I'd rather it was a relatively old conquest - I'd like the culture to be predominantly Dunedin not Darikahn.

I have to say I don't like the theocratic government. I'm all for having the ruling faction very religous and an active church faction but I'd be more interested in a secular govt. I also really like the idea of the space stations being analagous to puritans/heretics. They exist on the dark/light side and in the slums as well, but its the stations that are the most organised but I'd like some 'realistic' rationale as to why they weren't being blown up and if they have something the government needs this could lead to an uneasy peace. I feel a theocratic govt might hang the consequences

Perhaps we don't need to put it on the border of Darikhan space - that idea came about because of the book which focuses the brief description on the anti-Darikhan crusade. The Cormoran empire, also next to the Dunedin is riven by civil war between those who support the established church and the Cyreans (sp?) who seem to fill the puritan role of being firmly of the Burning Wheel religion but opposed to the institution of the church.

This border world could have been captured from the Cyreans by Dunedin cursaders who couldn't make the journey to Darakhin space or simply be a Dunedin one on the border which has been heavily influenced by Cyrean doctrine and perhaps has undergone one or more revolutions. Currently its in orthodox hands but for some reason the powers that be lack the will or resources to push into the space stations.

In any case the more religious we make the ruling govt, the clearer the reason we should establish why they aren't moving against the heretics. Ithink in BW terms it would be a mjor source of conflict and something the worm would exploit.

I'd still go for noble fief/steward or merchant league. However I could compromise on a dictator - what would be the difference between that and a noble fief/steward? Lack of legitimacy? Rules by military power alone?

I'd favour the religion being a faction - I like a strong church, but I'm not sure I want them in charge.  A merchant league with strong support from the church could be cool - it'd have an Italian or German city-state feel.

Quote from: NiallSI'm quite taken with the idea of the world being recently taken over and all the conflict that would breed, and I think that concept could work with any form of government. A Merchant League could have received its charter from the Dunedin in exchange for guranteeing military or industrial products

I like this idea a lot.

The main problem I foresee with the world being on the Dunedin/Comoran border is that makes it about as close to a core world as it gets, so we'd potentially have to rethink the outworld decision. I'd prefer to leave it on the fringes of Dunedin space, where it's more vulnerable to the worm.

As for the Theocracy, I'm not committed to it by any stretch of the imagination. I've already said that Merchant League or Dictatorship would be my preference (much like you guys with religion, I have no problem with nobles being a faction, but I don't want them as the ruling government). Since most of us seem to have Merchant League as at least a secondary preference, that might be the best option.

I do quite like the idea of a Theocracy though - I really dig the idea of having crusading religious warriors on the streets, maybe with a bit of that hospitaller / Kingdom of Heaven feel. We could even take the Merchant League as the government and religious orders for predominant military...

Quote from: Illegible SmudgeThe main problem I foresee with the world being on the Dunedin/Comoran border is that makes it about as close to a core world as it gets, so we'd potentially have to rethink the outworld decision. I'd prefer to leave it on the fringes of Dunedin space, where it's more vulnerable to the worm.

The world used to be a hot player within the empire, thus leading to the vast amount of overpollution, but has since been forgotten as resources have become more scarce.  I prefer Merchant League for this reason.  The reason it has become the enclave for religious groups is because the Merchant League is all about profit, let the people do want they want within reason as long as it's not cutting into the bottom line.  The pirates are trying to exploit the remaining resources and the eco-terrorists are trying to stop production, both cutting into the bottom line.  It's like Pittsburgh during the waning days of steel production.

Yeah, it looks like we're getting close to a consensus on Merchant League. Don't forget that you can introduce factions like Theocratic Institutions to mimic powerful churches that don't quite rule but get close.

Speaking of which, let's do Factions now instead of later (I originally hoped to do them at the end).

The idea behind factions is that they represent power wielded by groups other than the main government and its military. They don't necessarily act in opposition to it (though they can), but they have their own purviews and concerns that are distinct from the government's.

So, to review the faction rules:

Everyone gets to pick one faction that the world has (they don't have to if they don't want to). Overlapping types are allowed, so long as you're not trying to steal someone else's thunder. Picking a faction means you want it to appear in play somehow. One of the things you're eventually going to try to do is take over or destroy the factions (for sweet, juicy disposition points). Factions are also a good way to bring in lifepath settings that otherwise wouldn't be native.

Types of Factions:

Civilian Communes - Democratic governments in opposition to the main government. Makes the Commune lifepath setting "native" (easier to take). Might be good to take for the satellites if anyone wants to involve them in play.

Cult Churches - A powerful church that is not the Mundus Humanitas (the main church of the setting). The Theocratic setting is native, but characters are not members of the Mundus Humanitas or its sects.

Imperial Bureaucracy / Court - A vast, sprawling bureaucracy with a will of its own. It assists the main government in running the planet. Makes the Stewardship and Court setting native (good for anyone who wants to run a courtier, or a noble who isn't a warrior).

Indigenous Life-Forms - Unusual lifeforms which the Worm could find useful. It makes it easier for the Vaylen by opening up some of their lifepath settings.

Kerrn Diazpherah - Plant/Frogmen who help humanity against the Worm. Makes the Kerrn Diazpherah setting native.

Merchant League / Corporate Entity - As a faction, instead of a government, this would mean a rival merchant league, perhaps trying to horn in on the government's monopoly?

Military Junta - A powerful military organisation that is independent of the government. Makes the Hammer (space navy) and Anvil (planet based forces) settings native.

Organised Crime - There's organised crime around. I'd suggest that if anyone wants to be a pirate, or involve pirates, this would be a good faction to take.

Psychologist Foundation - "Psychology" is what BE calls psychic powers. A Psychologist Foundation is a psychic cabal of some sort, whether hidden or not. They make Psychology lifepath settings native, so if anyone is thinking of playing a psychic, make this your choice.

Rebel Line / Royalists - Disempowered nobles struggling to regain their birthright. Makes the Nobility setting native. Could be good if someone took this to represent the Darikahn nobles who switched sides after the capture.

Slaves and Serfs - There's an underclass exploited brutally by the elite. They can be slaves, serfs, morlocks or anything similar. Taking it as a faction makes the Servitude and Serfdom settings native.

Theocratic Institutions - The one you've all been waiting for. A powerful branch of the Mundus Humanitas or one of its sects is found on the planet. They don't run the place, but they're highly influential. Makes the Theocracy setting native.



At a glance, Organised Crime, Civilian Communes, and Theocratic Institutions all seem like good choices for our game. If anyone wants to play a Noble, Rebel Line / Royalists is almost necessary.

I'm holding off my choice for now. I want to see what you guys pick first.

Psychologist Foundation - open, I'd think, and working with the Church. Make dandy Inquisitors.

Cool. That means that the church would not only have High Inquisitors (a special kind of church-trained psychic that takes a lot of lifepaths to get to) but also psychic operatives at lower levels.

Psychic powers are the result of ancient genetic tinkering. Maybe the church clones psychic genelines to produce additional operatives (using Merchant League technology), with the Foundation helping to train them in exchange for getting to keep some of the "recruits"? That would also provide us with a cool explanation for the Religious Orders military option if someone eventually wanted to go with it - cloned religious soldiers!

Yup, and just as the Good Book says - God made us in His image, so we're just continuing the mandate.

Its not clear in the book whether you would have to choose theocratic twice to get the Cyreans and the established BW church, or if one pick would be sufficient to bring both into play. Just in terms of thinking about the idea of two religous factions, otherwise two people would have to pick theocratic each. If the spacers were cults of course then that would be two picks.

I like the idea of having the religous types as the soldiers so we can leave that to the next bit about predominant military. I think I'll go for rebel line/royalists. They can be either a cadet branch of the Dunekin Overlord looking to expand their own power base (perhaps exiled after a failed coup?), a Darikhan hold-over or a third group of native nobles dispossed by the all the changes. The details can be hammered out when we see the other factions. In any case they still have some clout, are pissed off and looking for allies to restore them to their rightful place on top of the heap. Probably have quiet contacts with those heretical spacers (and perhaps share the same beliefs?) whoever they are.

Well, here's my first house-ruling then: To avoid redundancy and bring more factions in, when you pick a faction it means that there are simply organisations of that type. Whether there's one, two or a dozen of them, and whether they all agree with one another is a matter of colour, and we can work it out as we go along.

I like the idea of the ex-Darikahn nobles best of the options you presented, Niall. If the planet was conquered by clone troops from the Mundus Humanitas and mercenaries from the Merchant League, maybe the Dunedin nobles haven't moved in yet? The Darikahn titles are still recognised at least partially, by the populace.


Here's a quick recap of what we have so far btw, so that everyone can keep track:

Physical:
Outworld
Partial Life Supporting
Predominantly Land
Broad Range of Conditions

Cultural:
Dunedin
Merchant League Government
Low Index

Factions:
Psychologist Foundation
Rebel Line / Royalist

Colour:

An ex-Darikahn world recently conquered by Dunedin crusaders. An intentionally tide-locked industrial world run by a Merchant League backed by the Mundus Humanitas. A vast wealth disparity between the elite (the Merchant League, the Church, the Nobles) and the plebs. Plenty of psychic inquisitors and agents working for the powers that be. Anarchic space stations scattered throughout the system, supporting plenty of piracy. Militant religious orders filled with clones and under the power of the Mundus Humanitas.

A few comments:

I like what's shaping up so far in the colour. We're getting close to the point where we should start trying to weave all of this together into a little potted history and anthropology of the system. Once we get the military and factions done, we can race through the economic stuff.

So, start thinking of character ideas, and some relationships they might have. Remember, you need at least one relationship to someone on the other side - someone who will be working against your team (though they don't actually need to be a worm, they just need to oppose your goals). And one relationship to a "Figure of Note" - someone important to the story of this world's conflict with the Vaylen (who isn't a PC). It can be the same person - you might know someone very important who is working against your goals.

The non-native Human settings at this point include: Stewardship and Court, Commune, Hammer, Anvil, Servitude and Serfdom, and er, Theocracy unless someone takes Theocratic Institutions or Cult Churches as a faction. Currently native: Merchant League, Psychologist, (civilian) Spacefarer, Freeman, Outcast and Criminal, Nobility.

Characters from non-native settings, though not impossible to play, do tend to be at a disadvantage, so if you want to play a character from one of the non-native settings, now's the time to pick a faction that'll let you do so.

Maybe the nobles could be Dunedin crusaders (or their descendants) who helped conquer the world in the name of the Church, but now feel that their contributions have been overlooked. They shed their blood to take this world damn it - surely they deserve some compensation for their toils.

As for my choice, after much deliberation I've decided to go for Civilian Communes, to represent the freedom loving mining communities and anarchic trading posts out in the Belt, along with their sympathisers on the planet. I kind of like the idea that there is a democratic underground resistance movement on the planet, a people's movement opposed to the inequity of all the wealth going to the corporations and the nobles (and maybe the Church, if it gets included).

Maybe mix it up a bit by having some communist elements in the resistance - make it a broad and fractious church of discontent. The resistance might even go some way to explaining the success of the free stations and renegades - their support runs deep enough that they can often get advanced warning of mobilizing military crackdowns and pass word to the ramshackle pirate/freeman alliance operating out in the Belt.

I think this works better for my pirate lord than organized crime, since it creates a symbiotic relationship between the pirates and the anarchic space stations - the pirates need a home base and community to operate out of, and the stations need the pirates to help defend them from the military. Plus taking Communes opens up the Commune setting, whereas the Outcast and Criminal setting is in play anyway - we don't need Organized Crime to play pirates.

One note though - we haven't picked Theocratic Institutions yet, and that's fine - I quite like the idea, but we each only get one choice and the communes came first for me. But people should be aware that we need Theocratic Institutions in play if we want to take Religious Orders for our predominant military.