Sorry I didn't post for a while, it was Real Life's fault.  I am reading now and will post IC any second!

Wow, I don't think we need two months worth of supplies, do we?  The canyon is like 20mi from town or something.  Worst case scenario, we run low on food, so we make camp by the gulch while someone runs back to town with the cart.  I guess I didn't notice until the spreadsheet up there was posted how overboard the supplies have gotten.  Maybe two weeks at the absolute most is all we should need.

I've found the supply list a little silly from the get go, but I assumed they were having fun. Heck, taking ten on survival Winthrop can provide supplies as he goes for himself plus six others, while still moving just as fast as the horses. But he's a crazy woodsman and happy to live on venison and rations.

That's positively ludicrous. All you had to do was GM what the carrying capacity of the cart and wagon beforehand and then retroactively let my character know. The rolls are unnecessary, especially as we as a group are not going to let such a glaring error proceed without comment.

If I am planning to bring people back I should know how much weight either cart or wagon can take. If I knew how much both my wagon and cart can take, and having an INT 6 shouldn't factor as I do have eyes and bought the things to transport goods for my business (like barrels, of which my roll was somehow good enough for that) -- and I have Hasor and Ermengilda and others around who would also know the difference between the two weights -- there's absolutely zero reason for the roll.

Since we're running with these weight rules, then obviously I would have selected the wagon. Four wounded people, possibly with armor and gear, would roughly be a ton unto themselves, and supplies would add to that. Just ignore all this silliness and rolls and just say it's a wagon. It was a late GM judgment call and "oops" retcon it to make sense. Hell, I even have all the supplies to swap it out (bought because tragically I anticipated such 3e problems...).

Oh, and happy birthday.

Okay, final word on this ludicrous cart situation:

Problem #1: Is the overloading of the cart. This is only a problem because Aminda's additional supplies push the cart over limit. So there's no way Cudberct could have retroactively known Aminda was going to push the cart over its weight limit.

I'm sorry that you relied on a source of information directly contradicted by RAW, but even if we assume that Cudberct "should've known" (although the dice indicate otherwise) it's really irrelevant to the source of the problem here.

Problem #2: Is the fact that Cudberct proposed splitting the party so that he could use a donkey-pulled cart instead of a horse-pulled wagon that would have moved at the same speed the parley group is currently moving at. And that has absolutely nothing to do with the semi-gray area of vehicular encumbrance loads and everything to do with movement rates.

If this had come up earlier, I might have allowed the retcon. But by the time it was actually mentioned the parley group was already gone and a number of distinct actions had been taken based on that reality.

Important lesson here, though: I am not going to be micromanaging your characters. I will not be playing your characters for you. The choices you make are the choices you make. If you choose to use Power Attack even though the math says you shouldn't, that's your choice. If you choose to go through a door without checking it for traps, that's your choice. And if you decide to pull your cart out of the stable instead of your wagon while proposing to split the party because the cart is too slow, that's also your choice.

Problem #3: We're still talking about this. Which, at this point, I can only interpret as a functional impasse in which the characters are unable to resolve their differences.

MOVING FORWARD

The argument between Cudberct and Aminda burns hot and furious for awhile until he drops the announcement that he has a wagon. Then things just get hotter. Aminda, empowered by Llewellyn's chit, buys the supplies she feels the party needs. Hasor retreats to the stables to get the wagon hitched to two light horses.

HELPING WITH THE WAGON: Anyone who wants to help hitch the horses to the wagon can say so between now and whatever time I post tomorrow. I'll assume everyone is pitching in to help load unless someone says otherwise.

LLEWELLYN: Aminda has spent 792 gp, 5 sp of your money. Please note this on your character sheet and post an acknowledgment here.

CUDBERCT: I'm assuming your pulling supplies from your character's possessions list. For all additional supplies not listed there, the total cost is 141 gp, 7 sp (after the established discount, which I also applied to a few other items that it seemed appropriate for). You are also the owner of two additional light horses which pull the wagon, which is an additional 150 gp. Please subtract these totals from your character sheet and post an acknowledgment here.

WAGON PARTY TRAVELING ARRANGEMENTS: Cudberct, Certh, and Gileus are all riding light warhorses belonging to Cudberct. Hasor is riding his light horse. Mika, Maggie, and Aminda are riding in the wagon.

SUPPLY WAGON: The final list of goods in the supply wagon has been posted to the first post in this thread. If anyone wants to ADD anything to it, you've got until tomorrow. (There are still several hundred pounds of encumbrance left over, so you should have plenty of room unless you go completely crazy.)

Quote from: Justin Alexander;606371LLEWELLYN: Aminda has spent 792 gp, 5 sp of your money. Please note this on your character sheet and post an acknowledgment here.

Roger that!

QuoteProblem #1: Is the overloading of the cart. This is only a  problem because Aminda's additional supplies push the cart over limit.  So there's no way Cudberct could have retroactively known Aminda was  going to push the cart over its weight limit.

My bad, I probably shouldn't have brought that up at this point.  I will keep my nose out of it hereafter, sorry about that.

From the IC Thread:

Quote from: Josh;606625Sir Wulf... are you rolling and adjudicating the results of the rolls for yourself?  I didn't think that was how it worked.  Or does Justin have the ability to edit our posts?

I was rolling and posting those rolls myself, figuring that would save time.  I haven't done anything likely to have substantial impact on the game, so I didn't see any reason to delay things.  

If I anticipate that something might be important or contentious, I'll refer it for Justin's adjudication.  If I overreach when posting, Justin can let me know and I'll amend my post.

Quote from: Sir Wulf;606835I was rolling and posting those rolls myself, figuring that would save time.  I haven't done anything likely to have substantial impact on the game, so I didn't see any reason to delay things.  

I had the same first reaction Josh did, but then I saw the actual rolls and followed the same basic thought process you did: The rolls were being used to inform roleplaying and didn't have much function or impact beyond that, so it made sense to just "consult the oracle" directly and roleplay off it.

I don't feel the need to really elaborate specific guidelines beyond that: If you're looking to affect the game world, lemme take it. If you're just trying to figure out how your character is approaching a particular situation, I'm fine with you just doing it. (The old "lemme make an Intelligence check to see if I'm smart enough to figure this out" thing.) When in doubt, default to me handling the check.

EDIT: Just saw the most recent one. That's getting into the gray area for me: Probably fine in this particular circumstance, but let's toss those my direction in the future.

REGARDING THE SUPPLY CARAVAN

With the light horses pulling the wagon, the supply caravan will be traveling 24 miles per day along the road, as opposed to the parley group which is traveling 21 miles per day.

So while the parley group is currently expecting the supply caravan to be a full day behind them, the supply caravan will actually be arriving at the broken bridge about an hour after the parley group.

Uh, remember Justin, outside of d20SRD.org and PCGen, you are my eyes and ears to 3e knowledge. I don't have the books at home, remember.

Further, as GM you are the eyes and ears of my setting knowledge. Let us know beforehand what are hard (non-negotiable) facts and we can avoid most of this.

Though I made the effort for Dern Nacre the healer to come talk to us, and anticipated a longer conversation to supplies planning, you are free as the GM not to engage in such and cut it off short. However when big questions that can only be supplied by GM rulings come up I do expect to be given a heads up. Cutting off the confab session early left several gaping holes in PC information, something anticipation could have helped (especially knowing now PCGen is not reliable).

Basically I don't like playing "guess what I'm thinking" and have it screw up coordination.

So, what's the 141.7 gp breakdown? I already made expense adjustments on my sheet in red; itemized I can avoid double counting.

Also why 150 gp for two extra light horses? And why are the donkeys disappearing (wouldn't their retained inclusion be the least amount of disruption)? Further water and beer weight will be rapidly peed away among eleven people, so dumping everyone in the wagon is still a valid option. Please explain the judgment call here.

(Edit: And as a note the warhorses will be haltered to the wagon. They are the least likely to spook in battle.)

Finally, going with your assumed caravan, what's our current encumbrance out of 3000 lbs. wagon?

Quote from: Sir Wulf;606835From the IC Thread:

I was rolling and posting those rolls myself, figuring that would save time.  I haven't done anything likely to have substantial impact on the game, so I didn't see any reason to delay things.  

If I anticipate that something might be important or contentious, I'll refer it for Justin's adjudication.  If I overreach when posting, Justin can let me know and I'll amend my post.

Yeah, for reference the first time I saw it I assumed that it was just flavor rolling.  The most recent, the role directly contradicted the details that I had gotten in a PM (granted, they were likely false data as the roll was kind of bad).  Also, I totally missed Justin's line when first describing the tracks "Almost as if someone were wearing tiny slippers made from bound twigs or sticks" and so I thought you completely made that up.  Re-reading, I realize that I am silly.

Carry on!

I'm in the middle of the Midwest blizzard and most of today was spent shoveling snow. I'll be checking in tomorrow for a proper update.

I am now the proud owner of two more light horses, for 150 GP. I will deduct them together after itemization.

Still need an itemized breakdown of 141.7gp

Previous items:

Quote from: Opaopajr;604336Immediate Transactions.

4.2gp = 7 day wages upfront Mika & Maggie, 3sp/day
4gp = +2 Barrel
8gp = +2 Saddlebag
16.2gp = Total  (I will subtract this immediately from my reserves.)

I already had 5 waterskins (one for each warhorse and donkey), so Maggie & Mika can borrow 2. Cudberct, Hasor, & Certh each have one -- let me know if they bring their own).
--------------------------------

Small beer is/was usually cheaper than ale (tastes great! less filling!... more peeing!), but d20srd.org & PHB 3.5 only has Ale 2 sp/gal.

A 260 lb barrel divided by 8 lb. gallons = 32.5 gal.
32.5 gal times 0.2 gp/gal (2 silver) = 6.5 gp
Shall I take the 40% (on the house cost) off of 6.5 gp?

Water can come from the town well, as we can see in the town picture (unless it's owned by someone).

141.7 minus 16.2 = 125.5 gp to be itemized.

Hope you get unburied from the snow!

Uh, is Justin OK? Is he still buried under snow?

As far as I know, the midwest has been getting slammed by some nasty winter weather for awhile now. I hope he's ok, but there's not much we can do until he finds time to check in again.