Perhaps they're sculpting the dice for each roll.

That roughly averages, or is faster than, my 3e/PF experience. One round is six seconds, therefore ten rounds is one minute combat. Given that I'd get 8 or so turns (one turn per round) in a three-hour game battle with 5 players that's about right -- or faster.

Needless to say that I think there's a better way to play.

So long just for a few combat rounds. Fuck, if DMs like this were directors, every movie would be Ishtar.

It's the endless bickering over how many obscure modifiers stack, and then citation and checking of references. It's excruciating.

I'm almost at the point where I want to run a reactionary campaign where player characters get nothing more than a dirty cotton tunic and a pointy stick (1d2 damage, bring your own coin).

Quote from: Opaopajr;661497It's the endless bickering over how many obscure modifiers stack, and then citation and checking of references. It's excruciating.

I posted this over on dragonsfoot yesterday, it applies for you, too.

As DM, you need to be the boss. It's all about confidence.

Every evening before the game session, look at yourself in the mirror, and recite this: "I am the Game Master, I master the game, the game does not master me. Players are my bitches. I wear the Viking Hat!"

Important phrases to use at appropriate times in the game session.

"No, don't be stupid." This one is especially useful during character generation, since you should set the right tone from the beginning. Players know they should not play a ninja in an Arthurian age game, but they'll try it anyway because they are Unique Special Snowflakes who are happy to sink the ship of your campaign so long as they're the captain with everyone looking at them as it's going down.
"I wanna be a drowlesbianstripperninja, lol."
"No, don't be stupid."
"I wanna be a chaotic evil anti-paladian/assassin of Iuz!"
"No, don't be stupid."
"I moon the King!"
"No, don't be stupid."
It's a powerful and useful phrase.

"Shut the fuck up and roll the dice." This is appropriate after lengthy rules arguments. Note that rules discussions are fine. Rules arguments should not be permitted.
"My cleric has a sword because medieval priests had swords so that is realistic."
"Very well, then your cleric has no spells, and is just a shitty fighter. That's realistic."
"No that's not fair! But Jim's wizard has magic!"
"Jim is not insisting on his wizard carrying a sword."
"No fair! No fair!"
"Shut the fuck up and roll the dice."

"Okay, you spend the round D&D - dithering and ducking." This is useful when the player wants to take half an hour to decide their character's action. I've always felt that some tactical discussion is fine. Part of being a "fighter" is a knowledge of tactics. The fighter character will likely have a better tactical grasp than the typical player. In the absence of a skill system where we add +1 to initiative of fighters or the like, the way to simulate tactical knowledge is to allow some discussion in the group about what to do. But this can get excessive, with someone's first level thief agonising over whether to draw their dagger and run in to backstab or sit back with sling, etc. Excessive decision time can be easily dealt with by having them lose their action this turn.

These are all things you need to do from the beginning with any new group. You will lose some players, but they were going to be a pain in the arse anyway so are no real loss, but in fact a gain. Once you establish that you are the game's MASTER, and that you wear the Viking Hat, things go much more smoothly.

It's either that or bend them over the table and hump their hams.

Oh God, I wouldn't DM 3e/PF unless someone paid me! My viking hat is firmly plastered to my skull and I have none of my youthful enthusiasm left for petty bickering.

(edit: I'd end up running a totalitarian/authoritarian 3e/PF game; special snowflakes would be melted everywhere. restricted races, restricted classes, restricted multi-classing, slowed to a crawl XP progression, 3d6 stat gen, etc. That and I'd like to run "single class challenge" where everyone in the party has to play the same class.)

I'm just hanging out with my friends, enjoying their company, supporting the Local Family Game Store, and eating their snacks.

(but your advice is still good for those out there.*
*except perhaps for humping their hams. )

Better a firm and fair DM of a shit game system than a wussy inconsistent indecisive DM of a good system.

Take over. It is the duty of the competent to lead.

Heh, my friend is learning. He puts all this effort into world creation and campaign ideas and stuff and I just love to see his enthusiasm for this stuff. I haven't the heart to boot him aside and GM his game. Besides, some of his ideas are fun.

I already run my own games, but it's taking a hiatus for this group in particular. They were enthusiastic for their own ideas after awhile, and how can I say no? Besides, one has to learn the hard way that Monty Haul, and Lax GMing in general, brings its own problems. I can say it, explain it, but really one often needs to experience it.

I'm not so much of a GM sergeant as a GM schoolmarm. The (new GM) kids need to grow from their own play on the playground. However a GM boot camp is not a wholly off-base idea...

It's important to remember the roots of our hobby. Dungeons were invented as adventuring locales by Dave Arneson. Why? Because his players kept wandering off the fucking map.

"Sorry guys but there are GIANT FUCKING STONE WALLS stopping you from going anywhere but forward or backwards."

Right from the beginning of the hobby GMs had to find ways to stop players doing hours of dithering simply to end up doing stupid shit.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;661509It's important to remember the roots of our hobby. Dungeons were invented as adventuring locales by Dave Arneson. Why? Because his players kept wandering off the fucking map.

"Sorry guys but there are GIANT FUCKING STONE WALLS stopping you from going anywhere but forward or backwards."

Right from the beginning of the hobby GMs had to find ways to stop players doing hours of dithering simply to end up doing stupid shit.

If anyone else did this, we'd be calling upon his inability to adapt to players' decisions . Of course, there's this and there's deliberate leaving off the map as soon as you see it, to piss the GM off.

Quote from: Opaopajr;661507Heh, my friend is learning. He puts all this effort into world creation and campaign ideas and stuff and I just love to see his enthusiasm for this stuff. I haven't the heart to boot him aside and GM his game. Besides, some of his ideas are fun.

I already run my own games, but it's taking a hiatus for this group in particular. They were enthusiastic for their own ideas after awhile, and how can I say no? Besides, one has to learn the hard way that Monty Haul, and Lax GMing in general, brings its own problems. I can say it, explain it, but really one often needs to experience it.

I'm not so much of a GM sergeant as a GM schoolmarm. The (new GM) kids need to grow from their own play on the playground. However a GM boot camp is not a wholly off-base idea...

Part of a problem is, that every GM needs to develop a style of his own. And well, on the other hand, there are just people who enjoy railroads/illusionism - I've met a few playing recently.

Then again, they were veteran WoDers...

But yeah, teaching via practice is not a bad idea. People tend to pick up the GMing styles of people they first played with, and had tremendous fun.

Quote from: JamesV;660077I would recommend RIFTS. That way the GM will be sure that no more than 98% of the game will be about combat. D&D has no such limit.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

Its rather weird for me as the range of combat to roleplaying can vary drastically.

Wednesday--50 Fathoms Savage Worlds 50% combat. 2 round of a fight against octopons, a giant octopus, and an octopon mage. The rest of the session was spent roleplaying. One conflict was resolved by intimidation via 18 lbs. cannon and followed by parley with a bit of bribery.

Saturday--Birthday Shaintar/Savage Worlds one shot session. 95% combat with 5% exploring tunnels, disarming traps, and some roleplaying. Intentional though on my part. I used the bennies flow from players to GM rule. There was three encounters, three traps, and a bunch of treasure at the end. Session lasted 3.5 hours, a little over the 3 hours I had intended it to last.

Sunday 0% combat, Earthdawn. The only enemies to appear were bandits that were intimidated into running away, recognizing the Archer's mystic aim mark. The group spotted a For Dei army unit heading toward Taolin, and pushed to warn the Tiet Dei town. Now next time might lean much more towards combat, since it'll start with For Dei attacking Taolin.

I've had sessions that lasted 12 hours with near 95% combat and I've had sessions that were 100% roleplaying with 0 combat.  

Your group will tend to have a preference for either violence or to use other means such as intimidation, bribery, and roleplaying to avoid encounters.

It becomes more critical in a game like Earthdawn to develop these skills, as combats tend to be 15 minutes at a minimum and usually average an hour, with longer fights taking up the whole session (sometimes not even intentionally on your part as Game Master, as the rolls can go against the players sometimes).  Savage Worlds subtlety discourages combat through its sheer lethality although the battle speed is very quick.  

DnD through its gobs of hit points can discourage the need for roleplaying because the group feels it can steamroll every obstacle with violence. I guess I like the ADnD Pools of Radiance counter approach to that. So you think you can steal from the people of Phlan? Watch as I steamroll you with infinite guards out for your blood. Also hope you like camping in the woods, because this is the only safe town in miles. Consequences can really change the attitude of the players. I guess I really love Pools of Radiance for both allowing the action of ripping off the shop, and showing the town's extreme reaction. I had never even seen the like on any other game on the NES.  If you go around the game world committing crimes and act like psychopaths, don't expect any help from anyone, as almost everyone is gonna hate and fear you, thinking they might be the next victim of murder or theft.  

This might be one of the major reasons I like Earthdawn and Savage Worlds. The lethality of the bonus dice means any damage roll has the potential to be your last breath and it discourages combat compared to the set damage of DnD which can give high level characters an arrogant feeling of being invulnerable to low level enemies.

Quote from: slayride35;661651Its rather weird for me as the range of combat to roleplaying can vary drastically.

Wednesday--50 Fathoms Savage Worlds 50% combat. 2 round of a fight against octopons, a giant octopus, and an octopon mage. The rest of the session was spent roleplaying. One conflict was resolved by intimidation via 18 lbs. cannon and followed by parley with a bit of bribery.

Saturday--Birthday Shaintar/Savage Worlds one shot session. 95% combat with 5% exploring tunnels, disarming traps, and some roleplaying. Intentional though on my part. I used the bennies flow from players to GM rule. There was three encounters, three traps, and a bunch of treasure at the end. Session lasted 3.5 hours, a little over the 3 hours I had intended it to last.

Sunday 0% combat, Earthdawn. The only enemies to appear were bandits that were intimidated into running away, recognizing the Archer's mystic aim mark. The group spotted a For Dei army unit heading toward Taolin, and pushed to warn the Tiet Dei town. Now next time might lean much more towards combat, since it'll start with For Dei attacking Taolin.

I've had sessions that lasted 12 hours with near 95% combat and I've had sessions that were 100% roleplaying with 0 combat.  

Your group will tend to have a preference for either violence or to use other means such as intimidation, bribery, and roleplaying to avoid encounters.

It becomes more critical in a game like Earthdawn to develop these skills, as combats tend to be 15 minutes at a minimum and usually average an hour, with longer fights taking up the whole session (sometimes not even intentionally on your part as Game Master, as the rolls can go against the players sometimes).  Savage Worlds subtlety discourages combat through its sheer lethality although the battle speed is very quick.  

DnD through its gobs of hit points can discourage the need for roleplaying because the group feels it can steamroll every obstacle with violence. I guess I like the ADnD Pools of Radiance counter approach to that. So you think you can steal from the people of Phlan? Watch as I steamroll you with infinite guards out for your blood. Also hope you like camping in the woods, because this is the only safe town in miles. Consequences can really change the attitude of the players. I guess I really love Pools of Radiance for both allowing the action of ripping off the shop, and showing the town's extreme reaction. I had never even seen the like on any other game on the NES.  If you go around the game world committing crimes and act like psychopaths, don't expect any help from anyone, as almost everyone is gonna hate and fear you, thinking they might be the next victim of murder or theft.  

This might be one of the major reasons I like Earthdawn and Savage Worlds. The lethality of the bonus dice means any damage roll has the potential to be your last breath and it discourages combat compared to the set damage of DnD which can give high level characters an arrogant feeling of being invulnerable to low level enemies.

If a group of dnd players thinks they can steamroll enemies, make the enemies deadlier.

Often I warn the players (logically through events and observations in play) that an enemy is really really deadly.

If they still make a poorly planned frontal assault....they get wrecked.

I have observed a few players over the years that seem to think player characters are part of a secret society assured of being stronger than their enemies.

combat 95% of the time? The guy who said this must have been thinking of 4e...

Quote from: RPGPundit;661908combat 95% of the time? The guy who said this must have been thinking of 4e...

How else can you fit in the 10 combat encounters in between Full Rest?

105% combat






Does ANYONE do 10 combats in a row? I sure don't, but I think that is the 'rule' in 4E.