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Author Topic: ". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."  (Read 5806 times)

BedrockBrendan

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2013, 08:57:29 AM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;660031

So, how 'bout it, gamers? Is 95% of your time spent playing D&D devoted to killing things? How 'bout other roleplaying games? Which ones offer you far better options to killing things?


I have never had a game with anything apporaching 95% combat. The one exception to this is the odd occassion when a long battle occured over one or two sessions, but even in these cases it wasn't 95%. Most D&D games I have played in will feature combat as an important component. I never really saw the combat grind until late 3E (where I started seeing lots of advice to build adventures around encounters---seemed that people were defining an adventure as a string of encounters connected by some kind of arch or quest). This was a style that didn't appeal to me. But even then, the encounters were not all assumed to be combat encounters.

Bill

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2013, 08:59:37 AM »
Quote from: Exploderwizard;660094
Some people seem to be unaware of the fact that D&D existed prior to WOTC. These people should either do a little research or keep thier mouth shut to stem the tide of shit spewing forth.

I would invite these buttmunchers to attempt killing things 95% of the time in an OD&D game. They would spend way more time rolling stats for new characters than playing the game.


True, unless the gm is in epic fail mode and has 1hd skeletons vs level 12 pc's all the time :)

flyerfan1991

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2013, 09:10:01 AM »
You get out of a game what you put into it.

If you go in wanting combat, you'll get combat.  If you go in wanting RP, you'll get RP.

As I recall, the majority of the time in our old AD&D games was spent not in combat, but in either exploring or loot counting.  In fact, when we were kids, combat was merely the means to getting all sorts of interesting loot.  Combat wasn't the focus, loot was.

Sacrosanct

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2013, 10:13:10 AM »
I play AD&D.  95% of the time we try to actively avoid combat if we can, or failing that, hope for morale heck failures.  

;)
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you're stupid, your PC will die.  If you're an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you're unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC's die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Xavier Onassiss

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2013, 10:14:00 AM »
Gotta agree with Dr. Rotwang, at least provisionally.

My last D&D 3.5 campaign was mostly about role-playing. There was a lot of combat, but it was all plot-driven. (IOW, we fought battles that advanced our characters' goals, not just a bunch of "random encounter" bullshit."

The 4E campaign that followed it was very similar, contrary to most of the "opinions" I've seen expressed about 4E: it was more role-playing than combat.

The 4E campaign I'm currently playing in probably fits the popular image of 4E more closely: it's mostly combat (killing stuff 95% of the time) and not so much role-playing. Different gaming group, different play style.

I liked my old gaming group's play style, but them's the breaks.
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Brad

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2013, 10:25:42 AM »
This is just symptomatic of the rampant stupidity prevalent in the rpg community: "If rules don't exist for social interaction, the game does not support social interaction!" And yet, these same people try to distance themselves from wargaming as much as possible. Which is it? If you say rpgs are not wargames, then you can't simply take the RAW as "everything possible in the game".

AD&D has rules for combat, spell casting, rolling stats and making characters. It's debatable if the rules for combat actually exist as there are two contradictory examples given, one in the PHB and the other in the DMG. Regardless, SOMEHOW, all the AD&D games I've ever run or played in were replete with social interaction and "roleplaying". So the question: do "indie gamers" just have a beef with D&D and use every opportunity to diss it, while simultaneously promoting other games that are based on D&D? It's eerily similar to the arguments I hear for listening to certain bands...ignore that old, outdated shit and listen to this new shit that's extremely derivative of the shit I hate.

Benoist

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2013, 10:28:59 AM »
Quote from: Reddit
"Most people....aren't [smart, capable, and able to do a lot of the things that make for a fun roleplaying game]. ... They need the rules, story, choices, to support them and their less creative, dynamic friends, into actually having the roleplaying experience you can pull out of anything. ...Players who are extremely capable can do anything. Those who are not, they need, crave and appreciate rulesets that match their desired game."!
Aside from sheer ignorance, this is the heart of the problem, IMO: the assumption that players are bad and that the GM by default sucks, is incompetent, wants to get on a power trip over the PCs, etc. That there's no such thing as trust or collaboration between the participants of the game, that they are incapable of creating the worlds of THEIR imaginations, to quote the old TSR one-liner, that there is something fundamentally broken about the way they communicate across the game table.

When you are assuming that you are talking to smart and competent individuals who know better than you do what's good for their games and how to get what they want out of them, that they are able to collaborate and talk to one another, you can free yourself from that bullshit and unlock the real potential of role playing games.

That's my belief, in any case.

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2013, 10:30:11 AM »
Quote
Don't play D&D. Seriously. D&D's mechanics point you so hard at killing things, you will end up killing things 95% of the time.


I think you all are interpreting the "95%" bit wrong. I think he's talking about sessions - as in in 95% of your sessions, you'll end up killing things. Not that I agree with that, but it makes a lot more sense than spending 95% of your playing time killing things.

However, if that gets in the way of the war and righteous indignation, feel free to ignore this.

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Bill

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2013, 10:31:11 AM »
Quote from: Brad;660113
This is just symptomatic of the rampant stupidity prevalent in the rpg community: "If rules don't exist for social interaction, the game does not support social interaction!" And yet, these same people try to distance themselves from wargaming as much as possible. Which is it? If you say rpgs are not wargames, then you can't simply take the RAW as "everything possible in the game".

AD&D has rules for combat, spell casting, rolling stats and making characters. It's debatable if the rules for combat actually exist as there are two contradictory examples given, one in the PHB and the other in the DMG. Regardless, SOMEHOW, all the AD&D games I've ever run or played in were replete with social interaction and "roleplaying". So the question: do "indie gamers" just have a beef with D&D and use every opportunity to diss it, while simultaneously promoting other games that are based on D&D? It's eerily similar to the arguments I hear for listening to certain bands...ignore that old, outdated shit and listen to this new shit that's extremely derivative of the shit I hate.


True; I also have somehow managed to enjoy roleplay and social interaction conduct rules for doing so.

How is that possible!!!

Bill

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2013, 10:33:17 AM »
Opinion:

DnD mechanics do not point in the direction of killing things.

DnD mechanics do offer the tools needed when killing is required.

Brad

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2013, 10:39:33 AM »
Quote from: Bill;660120
True; I also have somehow managed to enjoy roleplay and social interaction conduct rules for doing so.

How is that possible!!!


It's not, you're just wrong. Please play something else so you can fully enjoy your fun.

Bill

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2013, 10:41:39 AM »
Quote from: Brad;660124
It's not, you're just wrong. Please play something else so you can fully enjoy your fun.


Ok, back to Starfleet battle using advanced squadleader for boarding party combat.

K Peterson

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2013, 10:57:37 AM »
Quote from: Black Vulmea;660031
So, how 'bout it, gamers? Is 95% of your time spent playing D&D devoted to killing things?

Nope. Not close in any version of D&D I've played.

From my memory, I'd say that our 1e campaigns (25 years ago) consisted of about 50-75% combat. The 3.x campaigns were in the same range. (Though, we packed a lot more combats in 1e sessions than 3.x sessions).

4e campaigns peaked a little higher but probably maintained the same average. We had some sessions where combat ate up an entire 4 hour session, and some that took 2 hours to resolve. Combats didn't occur every session, but when they did they regularly took hours.

Quote
How 'bout other roleplaying games? Which ones offer you far better options to killing things?

Call of Cthulhu has given me great options for killing characters. ;)

Benoist

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2013, 10:57:41 AM »
Quote from: Reddit
Something like DungeonWorld, or Iron Heroes (a D&D 3.5 variant), will give you far better options towards NOT killing people and instead interacting with them beyond the sword.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtUgtX3ncTk for more on this.
BTW this video is worth watching too (it's on topic, and explains where the dude on Reddit is coming from). These guys are funny and decent at communication, but substance-wise it's pretty much an epic fail throughout, as far as I'm concerned.

Exploderwizard

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". . . you will end up killing things 95% of the time."
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2013, 11:08:36 AM »
Quote from: flyingmice;660117
I think you all are interpreting the "95%" bit wrong. I think he's talking about sessions - as in in 95% of your sessions, you'll end up killing things. Not that I agree with that, but it makes a lot more sense than spending 95% of your playing time killing things.

However, if that gets in the way of the war and righteous indignation, feel free to ignore this.

-clash


Either interpretation makes huge assumptions about playstyles. The whole mess is simply funnier due to the suggestion of using D&D spinoff games as a solution to the issue.

Its simply another case of someone who games with unimaginative lumps assuming that everyone else does too.
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