Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;999886I'm certain you made a thread about this, somewhere...

Me too but I couldnt find it! Laugh

Isn't everythread you make about this?

Quote from: Headless;999897Isn't everythread you make about this?

Huh? I dont think so.

I often describe D&D/d20 hitpoints as being bled away through desperate dodges, near hits that leave shallow wounds, flashes of arcane energy deflecting a blow, somebody stepping away at the right moment through some hint from the divine and all sorts of things like that.  Most movie fights are normal hit point damage with a few crits in the mix... right up until the last blow drives somebody into negatives.

Anyway, to contribute to the topic:

I describe them as nicks, bruises, non-serious injuries, until they're almost dead. Just think of it as the stuff that happens to heroes in action movies.

"The enemy makes a fierce thrust that nearly chops your head off, but you dodge to the side at the last second and the sword cuts a gash in your cheek instead."

After all, if you describe the PC as getting a broken arm, it doesn't really make sense that it would be healed after they get all their hit points back after a Long Rest. But if it's bruises and cuts, they could definitely shrug that off once they have a chance to regain their composure.

Quote from: rgrove0172;999860In becoming reacquainted with D&D I am struck by an oddity in the narration of combat effects.

QuoteI am well versed in what a HP actually represents and understand that hitting someone in D&D and applying damage does not necessarily represent physical injury to them, BUT how the hell does a GM then narrate the fight?

Quoteit creates a very odd situation when these apparently nasty injuries suddenly dissappear without any magical assistance after the guy takes a nap.

Do you ever get the feeling that you're just not running the right game system for what you're trying to achieve? That you're not really satisfied with the results you're getting; that there has to be some way to model the behavior more to your liking, and maybe it's the system that's confining you? That you're pounding a square peg into a round hole with a mallet, and the bastard will just not fit no matter how much effort you put into it or how you strike the peg?

That's what a number of your threads about your 5e experience sound like to me.

HP work great, but they never made sense. If you want HP to be blood points, that's fine. Others want to weave in fatigue, luck, etc into the HP-ness.

A big issue is what it means to be hit for 5 points of damage. At 1st level, that might mean nigh-disembowlment. At 4th level, that might mean a good slice. At 8th level, that might mean a nick.

Quote from: rgrove0172;999860How the hell does a GM then narrate the fight?

I would be willing to bet that a Vast majority of GMs, when consulting their Goblin's AC and determining the player's roll did indeed register a hit, probably say something like...

"Your sword cuts into the Goblin and he screams, spitting at you through his pointed teeth, but he is still standing."

The same would apply when the Goblin attacks the PC. More than likely some sort of Impact or Injury is related, because....lets face it, a HIT is a HIT - not a miss that bled some of the target's energy, stamina, skill or luck away. Mechanically that may well be what is represented but it seems very difficult to reply to a player that succeeded in rolling higher than his target's AC with...

"Your swing is a good one and he really has to dodge out of the way to avoid it, looks like you are pressing him hard, defenses are weakening!"

I mean, seriously? Does anyone actually do that?

The issue here is of course of no consequence unless you factor in healing, which in 5th ed is pretty rapid (ridiculously rapid) So when a GM explains the Goblin slashes the PC's arm, bruises him through his armor and cracks a rib as he falls down... it creates a very odd situation when these apparently nasty injuries suddenly dissappear without any magical assistance after the guy takes a nap.

So... Im not complaining about the healing (Thats another thread) instead Im simply asking how to narrate the actual loss of HP so this odd disconnect doesnt occur in the game?

Thanks in advance!

Pre-3e I usually called it as not actual meat damage much till the killing blow. So alot of nicks and cuts and bruises, and alot of ducking and dodging and getting increasingly worn down.

In AD&D its the blow that fells you that causes all the real harm and why anyone dropped to 0 HP was near useless afterwards even if revived.

5e plays much the same and I've been GMing it as fatigue and the nicks and bruises till the felling blow. So lots of fencing and parrying going on.

If it helps. Think of D&D combat as alot of fencing and saber duels like in any given Errol Flynn movie. Or any movie at all. Or even alot of real melee combat for that matter.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;999888?

Oops, I was replying this...

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;999866Don't try to make D&D a role-playing game when it's not one.

Quote from: K Peterson;999911Do you ever get the feeling that you're just not running the right game system for what you're trying to achieve? That you're not really satisfied with the results you're getting; that there has to be some way to model the behavior more to your liking, and maybe it's the system that's confining you? That you're pounding a square peg into a round hole with a mallet, and the bastard will just not fit no matter how much effort you put into it or how you strike the peg?

That's what a number of your threads about your 5e experience sound like to me.

Well, I wont deny that there are probably better suited systems out there but D&D is what the players are into so here I am. Besides, its been going strong for 35 or more years, surely it handle a little tweaking.

Quote from: Omega;999934Pre-3e I usually called it as not actual meat damage much till the killing blow. So alot of nicks and cuts and bruises, and alot of ducking and dodging and getting increasingly worn down.

In AD&D its the blow that fells you that causes all the real harm and why anyone dropped to 0 HP was near useless afterwards even if revived.

5e plays much the same and I've been GMing it as fatigue and the nicks and bruises till the felling blow. So lots of fencing and parrying going on.

If it helps. Think of D&D combat as alot of fencing and saber duels like in any given Errol Flynn movie. Or any movie at all. Or even alot of real melee combat for that matter.

Well honestly that sounds fine until the "killing blow part". In 5th ed even the attack that drives you below 0 HP is pretty easily recovered from. Stabilize, heal at least 1 HP then wait till your next long rest - POOF the nasty killing blow injury is gone just as easy as the little cuts and bruises.

I suppose for heroes even the one that takes you out "looked worse than it was" and just put you down for a bit. The broke ribs, ruptures spleen and punctured lung you though you had last night was just a bit of roughing up for a tough guy like you!" Laugh

Have you ever looked at Hackmaster? It really sounds like an HP/wound system like the one that game uses might be more up your alley. It's a lot more bookkeeping but it is technically more realistic.

Quote from: rgrove0172;999948Well, I wont deny that there are probably better suited systems out there but D&D is what the players are into so here I am. Besides, its been going strong for 35 or more years, surely it handle a little tweaking.

Most players are into whatever the DM/GM wants to run.

Years ago, I was playing in a frustrating 3e campaign where the GM wasn't having fun because the system wouldn't play ball with his vision of fantasy and several players were new-ish to RPGs and by default only knew 3e. After one crapass night, the GM was deeply bummed mid-game, so I said, fuck it, I am gonna run Tunnels & Trolls. And we did. And all was good in the universe forever more. Amen.

Except for the dick in the group. He left. Which only made the T&T campaign better.

You're always going to have a problem with D&D Grove, here's the problem...
1. You like to narrate what's going on.
2. D&D is abstract as hell.

Your only options are:
1. Learn to square the circle and narrate early HP loss as something other than real damage.
2. Separate Meat and Stamina/Skill/Luck and make the system more concrete, so you can narrate as normal (like you're doing in the Healing thread).
3. Pick a system with Hit locations/Wounds etc.

Actually, I'd like to make a point, because I ran into this too. Even with hitting 0 hp, narrating a fatal wound there doesn't quite work either.

For instance, one time a Wizard got ambushed by a Drow Assassin, and she did enough damage in one hit to instantly put him to 0. I described it as her running him through the heart.

This ended all fine and well with the wizard getting fed a healing potion before he failed his Death Saves, but I realized that if someone stabilized him with a medical kit, it wouldn't work because you can't just get up and walk away after a few bandages if your heart got run through.

So unless they literally get instagibbed by massive damage, you still have to be careful how describe the blow that puts them down. Because it has to be something that that they can bleed to death from, but something they could still get up and walk off if they're treated.