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Author Topic: You don't fucking win at D&D  (Read 18036 times)

KenHR

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You don't fucking win at D&D
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2012, 10:31:05 AM »
Quote from: Mr. GC;585321
No, that's the opposite of the OP. He claimed there was no winning and then went off on some tangent about dumbass parties trying to compete with themselves instead of their opponents. He also threw in a random rant about Wizards which is only really relevant because in a weak party it likely IS the Wizard carrying the entire party as they are the only ones that can, and in the better groups there is more than 1 PC and 1 class capable of doing something and is only noteworthy because the conditions required for a non weak party to exist are extremely unlikely to occur in many of the this board's posters' games.

Regardless it is just that, a tangent.


Talk about willful, RPGNet-levels of misreading just to crap all over a thread.

How can you not see that was the point?

Quote from: Sacrosanct
D&D is not a game to keep score between the players. This attitude among some people that they must have the most powerful character of the group, and that they must "win" every encounter is a blight upon our hobby.


Seems pretty clear to me.
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crkrueger

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« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2012, 11:14:48 AM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;585336
Shut up, you're wrong, and go back to TGD MGuy.
A useless bitching thread like this with Wizards and Win in it, WTF did you think was gonna happen?  Randomly feel the need to start the Culture War threads again?
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Sacrosanct

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You don't fucking win at D&D
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2012, 11:36:01 AM »
Quote from: CRKrueger;585346
A useless bitching thread like this with Wizards and Win in it, WTF did you think was gonna happen?  Randomly feel the need to start the Culture War threads again?

Sorry.  But it's not only the wizards.  In 2e, it was psionics and the CPH splatbook.  But more to my point (that I admit even I may have started to drift from), it's the attitude.  The attitude of "I can win any encounter because I'm so good, screw the rest of you."  

or

"I'm the best party member, so you all should do whatever I say."

Oftentimes these phrases completely ignore whatever is actually happening in game play, and only occur outside of actual play.  For example, the wizard player saying he'd just cast spell X, Y, and Z to win, when in actual game play, that wizard never had those spells available.


To me, a gaming group is there for everyone to have fun.  Not to cater to one special-needs person who has to be the center of attention because they don't get enough in real life.  To me, that was the intent behind D&D (and all rpgs).  Get together with friends in a social interaction on a common appealing hobby and have fun.  Min/maxing to be better than your fellow players as some sort of competition is a direct violation of the spirit of the game.

In my opinion anyway.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you're stupid, your PC will die.  If you're an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you're unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC's die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Mr. GC
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« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2012, 12:05:20 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;585336
Shut up, you're wrong, and go back to TGD MGuy.

It wasn't some random rant against wizards because more often than not, when the player is going around saying, "I win in this encounter!" and "I'm the most special character, so you all need to do whatever I want or need."  it's the wizard player.

I can tell you right now that if you came to my table and expected the rest of the group to rest whenever you felt like it regardless of whatever else was going on, or if you started claiming how you specifically are winning, they tell your entitled ass to go find another group.


I'm still not MGuy, but your idiocy is duly noted and disregarded.

Now, in your games that probably is what is happening. This is because you are a terrible DM, with no idea of balance or power and therefore the only character in your groups who can do anything is the wizard as the others are either taking the wrong actions or playing the wrong classes to be relevant. And in such groups, if the wizard ever left for any reason the rest of the party would soon fall. In good groups however this is not the case as there is more than one competent PC.

Me? I play with good groups, and with not terrible DMs. That means that in a party of 4-6, all are relevant, all are useful.

Quote from: KenHR;585342
Seems pretty clear to me.


Nope.

He starts off by giving examples of various types of encounters then saying you're not winning by overcoming those encounters. And yet that is the very definition of being successful. He then turns it into some dumbass party competing with itself rant.

Because he is such a moron, I'm going to mess with him a little by taunting him with Invincible* Wizards.

At the end of the day though, what matters is that the good groups are winning D&D as groups, and groups like his, where only the Wizard can carry the party but everyone bitches at the Wizard for saving their sorry asses die over and over and over again.

* - Not actually invincible, but he lacks the requisite skill and know how to threaten one, so invincible to him.
Quote from: The sound of Sacro getting Sacced
A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

Quote from: JRR;593157
No, but it is a game with rules.  If the results of the dice are not to be accepted, why bother rolling the dice.  So you can accept the good rolls and ignore the bad?  Yeah, let's give everyone a trophy.

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Sacrosanct

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You don't fucking win at D&D
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2012, 12:24:43 PM »
So do you normally read what someone says, and then take the opposite interpretation?

Because that's what you keep doing here.


But hey, I give you 2/10 for trolling.  I'm pretty convinced that's why you started an account here.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you're stupid, your PC will die.  If you're an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you're unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC's die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Mr. GC
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« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2012, 12:25:46 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;585364
So do you normally read what someone says, and then take the opposite interpretation?

Because that's what you keep doing here.


Nope. But I do assume that the opposite of what you say is what is actually true.
Quote from: The sound of Sacro getting Sacced
A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

Quote from: JRR;593157
No, but it is a game with rules.  If the results of the dice are not to be accepted, why bother rolling the dice.  So you can accept the good rolls and ignore the bad?  Yeah, let's give everyone a trophy.

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Honestly. Go. Play. A. Larp. For. A. While.

Eventually you will realise you were a retard and sucked until you did.

Sacrosanct

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You don't fucking win at D&D
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2012, 12:27:50 PM »
Quote from: Mr. GC;585365
Nope. But I do assume that the opposite of what you say is what is actually true.


Well then I must be right then, because the opposite of what you think I'm saying is what I actually said.

Me: People like that will not last long at my table.
You: Now, in your games that probably is what is happening. This is because you are a terrible DM, with no idea of balance or power and therefore the only character in your groups who can do anything is the wizard as the others are either taking the wrong actions or playing the wrong classes to be relevant.

Literally the opposite of what I had just said.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you're stupid, your PC will die.  If you're an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you're unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC's die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Benoist

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You don't fucking win at D&D
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2012, 01:42:02 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;585336
Shut up, you're wrong, and go back to TGD MGuy.

Mr. GC and MGuy are unlikely to be the same person. If you have any evidence to the contrary, you should PM one of the moderators or admins about it, since sockpuppeting is against the few rules of this site; if you have not, it's better to just hold on and steer clear of those kinds of accusations.

Lord Mistborn
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« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2012, 02:01:06 PM »
Geez if you people don't want me here you really shouldn't be posting this kind of thread.

So first things allow me to personally confirm that GC is not MGuy, so Sarc should really ease up on the paranoia.

Still if it get's to the point where the wizard is carrying the party then everyone at the table is in the wrong. The DM has failed to properly sandbag encounters, non-wizards have failed to build funtional characters, and the Wizard player really shouldn't be enabling the basketweavers. Keeping them alive won't make them hate you less.
Quote from: Me;576460
As much as this debacle of a thread has been an embarrassment for me personally (and it has ^_^' ). I salute you mister unintelligible troll guy. You ran as far to the extreme as possible on the anti-3e thing and Benoist still defended you against my criticism. Good job.

Mr. GC
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« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2012, 02:25:59 PM »
Quote from: Benoist;585390
Mr. GC and MGuy are unlikely to be the same person. If you have any evidence to the contrary, you should PM one of the moderators or admins about it, since sockpuppeting is against the few rules of this site; if you have not, it's better to just hold on and steer clear of those kinds of accusations.


He's just being a dumbass. In the first contentious thread I was involved in I was accused of being just about every other Denner that has posted here. In reality I have an account on the Den but don't really identify with them. Eventually he settled on my being MGuy for some reason.

http://tgdmb.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=724 - MGuy.

http://tgdmb.com/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1657 - Me.
Quote from: The sound of Sacro getting Sacced
A weapon with a special ability must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus.

Quote from: JRR;593157
No, but it is a game with rules.  If the results of the dice are not to be accepted, why bother rolling the dice.  So you can accept the good rolls and ignore the bad?  Yeah, let's give everyone a trophy.

Quote from: The best quote of all time!
Honestly. Go. Play. A. Larp. For. A. While.

Eventually you will realise you were a retard and sucked until you did.

mcbobbo

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You don't fucking win at D&D
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2012, 02:36:42 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;585336

It wasn't some random rant against wizards because more often than not, when the player is going around saying, "I win in this encounter!" and "I'm the most special character, so you all need to do whatever I want or need."  it's the wizard player.


Is this maybe a feature of magic? It alters reality, and is a 'grab bag' of solutions to problems.
"It is the mark of an [intelligent] mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Sacrosanct

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You don't fucking win at D&D
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2012, 02:44:18 PM »
Quote from: mcbobbo;585405
Is this maybe a feature of magic? It alters reality, and is a 'grab bag' of solutions to problems.

I don't think it's a feature of magic to make someone feel like they have to "beat" other characters during challenges and that everyone else should center their lives around him.

I think that's a person feature.

The class (ranger or paladin in 1e, psionist in 2e, and wizard in 3e) is just a tool that the players uses as an excuse to be a dick.  

"I'm not being a dick, I'm just playing my class the way it was designed.  Not my fault you all chose to play worthless classes."
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 02:46:24 PM by Sacrosanct »
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you're stupid, your PC will die.  If you're an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you're unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC's die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Benoist

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« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2012, 02:52:45 PM »
Quote from: Mistwell;585197
Yeah that's the quote from the D&D episode of Community.  Which you really should watch.  It was awesome.

http://www.vureel.com/video/24162/Community-S02E14

Never actually seen it. Thanks for the link!

Lord Mistborn
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« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2012, 03:01:20 PM »
Quote from: Sacrosanct;585408
I think that's a person feature.

The class (ranger or paladin in 1e, psionist in 2e, and wizard in 3e) is just a tool that the players uses as an excuse to be a dick.  

"I'm not being a dick, I'm just playing my class the way it was designed.  Not my fault you all chose to play worthless classes."


In fairness the the person playing the old Ranger or Paladin class is just stating the obvious. The only difference is that someone playing the old Fighter probably isn't at fault for not having a better class due to lol random character generation.
Quote from: Me;576460
As much as this debacle of a thread has been an embarrassment for me personally (and it has ^_^' ). I salute you mister unintelligible troll guy. You ran as far to the extreme as possible on the anti-3e thing and Benoist still defended you against my criticism. Good job.

StormBringer

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« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2012, 03:47:30 PM »
Does any mention of the word 'class' bring the Denner Douche Pack like a fucking dinner bell or something?
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