Here we go again...

Depends on the setting of course.

If magic items are relatively common then yes, "magic shops" of some sort will exist. Though this might be as simple as the local general goods store will buy one.

But in general I take my cues from BX and AD&D which had advice or examples like you turn in magic items for gold to "someone" and when I first read the rules in AD&D I got the impression this was not a shop. But was instead turning items in to the local government for what amounts to a bounty. BX never really explained either where these things were actually being sold to. So used Keep on the Borderlands as my general guide for that too.

I also liked AD&Ds rule that you had to choose. Keep or sell. You could not do both. Though I do not recall any in-world reasoning for that?

So in most of my campaigns actual magic shops are few and far between unless its a capitol or other location where such things make sense.
But when running a more high fantasy setting magic shops become more prevalent. In my own book magic shops were only in capitols or major market crossroads. Places where it makes sense for one to be.

If I were running something where theres a single huge megadungeon then I would place one in the nearest town because an adventure hub like that is bound to develop a lively trade in things brought up or supplies needed to go in.

Another big factor is this. How hard is it to craft magic items? This is going to skew things even more. If crafting an item is relatively easy then magic shops are going to pop up alot more. But the longer it takes and the harder it is. The rare its going to be down to the point someones making something once in their career at best and finding someone to make one for you is going to be a task as well.

Quote from: Aglondir on May 11, 2022, 04:58:41 PM

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb on May 11, 2022, 04:44:31 PM

"Magic Shoppes" are definitely old school...

Sacrificial Lamb,

Great post. I typed mine before I read yours, but I think it's on the same page (adjusting for a town the size of Fallcrest.)

Thank you, Aglondir.

By the way, magic armor in AD&D with a +3 bonus (or better) is probably more rare because specialized material is needed. On page 164 of the 1e Dungeon Master's Guide:

Quote

"Armor of +3 bonus is of special meteorite iron steel, +4 is mithrol alloyed steel, +5 is adamantite alloyed steel."

Oddly enough, I can't find a limitation like this for magic weapons......so stronger magic armor might be more rare than stronger magic weapons. It's weird.

If you go by the treasure tables in the DMG, more powerful magic weapons will also be more rare.

The more interesting implication is that magic armor isn't necessarily enchanted, it's just made from rare high quality steel. It also doesn't have any effect like magic weapons do, like being able to hit monsters that can't be harmed by mundane weapons.

In Ptolus, Eberron, Ravnica, Hogwarts and Abeir-Toril, yes.

In Westeros, Middle-earth, Earthsea, or Arthas, no.

In old school D&D there was some prices to create magic items IIRC (or was that OSE?).

Mostly a matter of taste and setting.

(However, even in HPL stories I think people might buy eldritch items from time to time... just not in specialized "magic shops").

I've floated the idea of having the sale of magic items be like a drug deal, with everyone being tense and making sure nothing goes wrong.

You could have that with 'proscribed' or dangerous magical items anyways.

I'm thinking of running an OSR game. It seems to me that selling magical loot is an expected part of it. How do you handle that in your OSR game? Do you have a "magic shop" that buys and sells magic items? Do merchants know if items are magical, or do they employ wizards? Do they buy at list price or half list price? Do they sell at list price, or sell at all? Do your players role-play it out, haggle?

Or is all of that thinking about it too much? Is it "We sell the thing; Done?"

In my Majestic Fantasy Realms, magic Items are luxury trade much like our history's trade in silk, spices, porcelain, and other rare items from far-off lands. Except these are unique items more like sculpture or art.

Your best prices are gained at auctions that are attended by an elite few, mostly merchants, with the wealth to bid on costly items. There is a "retail" level but is more about making an appointment with a merchant with the right connections than either waiting or buying what is on hand. Also, these merchants can accept commissions and contract with magic users they have a relationship to make a specific item.

The foundation of my system is outlined in this PDF.
https://www.batintheattic.com/downloads/Magic_Item_Creation_Rev_2.pdf

I tweaked the trading rules since I released this.

The latest iteration can be found in this on page 20 under Haggling (I ditched Accounting)
https://www.batintheattic.com/downloads/MW%20Majestic%20Fantasy%20Basic%20RPG%20Rev%2010.pdf

OR
My Merchant Adventures rules found here. The Haggling rules are found on page 8.
https://www.batintheattic.com/downloads/MW%20Merchant%20Adventures%20Rev%2004.pdf

Basically, the procedure is the player and the merchant both make 4 1d20 rolls looking to roll a modified 15 or better. You count up the relative success and look it up on the Trade Deal table. Rolling a nat 20 or a nat 1 modifies the number of successes.

If you don't use my ability system, then add in the higher of the character's intelligence or charisma and a bonus equal to half their level rounded down to the 1d20 roll.  I been using this since the early 2010s and it worked out well.

The last part of the magic shop puzzle is the inventory.

First I determine the total value of the inventory by dividing the shop owner's xp total by 10. This is the value of the shop's inventory in d (or silver pieces).

Then I roll up a magic item hoard using that value.
I don't have a PDF of my treasure generations but I can share an inspiration pad pro files.

Inspiration Pad Pro can be downloaded for free from here.
https://www.nbos.com/products/inspiration-pad-pro

The table I use can be downloaded from here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eRTljiNySeLqrILKORBtxR_NxxmiTe0j/view?usp=sharing
Note I recommend inputting numbers like 1,523 rather than 1,000, 1,500, or 2,000. The generation works by diving the treasure into 5,000d, 1,000d, and 100d increments. There is a chance that a 5,000d increment will be rolled up as 5 1,000d increments and so on. By having a number like 1,523, you increase the variety of smaller value items.

Below is the result of rolling 12,357d inventory of shop owned by a 7th level Magic User with 123,570 xp in OSE. Mind the magic-user likely only made the potions and scrolls and bought the rest using their social connections.

Finally remember you can choose to interpret d as either 1d = 1sp or 1d=1 gp depending on what you want for your campaign.

Hope this helps.

Broadsword with Light 15' radius (250d)
+1 Small Dagger (603d)
Broadsword with +1 damage only (450d)
Mace with +1 damage only (313d)
Large Dagger with +1 versus Demons (210d)
+1 Large Shield (572d)
+1 Small Shield (542d)
+2 Cuirboulli Armor (3050d)
Small Dagger with Return Weapon (203d)
+1 Broadsword (750d)
+1 One Handed Spear (608d)
Mace with +1 damage only (313d)
+1 Large Shield (572d)
+2 Shortsword (2100d)
+1 Plate Armor (4000d)
Scroll of Detect Evil (200d)
Scroll of Command (200d)
Charm of Command (400d)
Scroll of Charm Person (200d)
Scroll of Snake Charm (400d)
Charm of Haste (1,200d)
Scroll of Magic Missile (200d)
Scroll of Hold Person (600d)
Scroll of Magic Missile (200d)
Scroll of Command (200d)
Potion of Climbing (500d)
Potion of Clairvoyance (600d)
Potion of Fire Resistance (500d)
Potion of Healing (400d)
Potion of Plant Control (500d)
Potion of Healing (400d)
Potion of Healing (400d)
Potion of Healing (400d)
Potion of Healing (400d)
Potion of Clairaudience (500d)
Potion of Ethereality (1,000d)
Potion of Invulnerability (700d)
8 viz

Quote from: Aglondir on May 10, 2022, 05:33:43 PM

I'm thinking of running an OSR game. It seems to me that selling magical loot is an expected part of it. How do you handle that in your OSR game? Do you have a "magic shop" that buys and sells magic items? Do merchants know if items are magical, or do they employ wizards? Do they buy at list price or half list price? Do they sell at list price, or sell at all? Do your players role-play it out, haggle?

Or is all of that thinking about it too much? Is it "We sell the thing; Done?"

In my Majestic Fantasy Realms, magic Items are luxury trade much like our history's trade in silk, spices, porcelain, and other rare items from far-off lands. Except these are unique items more like sculpture or art...

Hi Estar,

Amazing work you've done there. I like the idea of auctions. It seems like something that would occur in a large city, like Lanhkmar or Waterdeep.