Quote from: Opaopajr;1061899spicy pickles

What kind do you like?

I love spicy food and pickles, but I've not seen spicy pickles. Eaten lots of spicy pickled peppers and carrots, but not spicy cucumbers.

Quote from: Opaopajr;1061899... is how I feel during overly granular RPG games because the combat feels eternal, and I might as well pretend we're all glittery immortals if I am going to be bored to death in a 4-part trilogy.

If the RPG combat is effectively pre-ordained that the PCs are going to win, then I'm bored to death if that combat drags out.

I wouldn't blame anyone wanting to FF through those.

I knew a GM during D&D 4e who ran combat theater of the mind and just used Extended Contests rules. It actually worked fine.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1061903I knew a GM during D&D 4e who ran combat theater of the mind and just used Extended Contests rules. It actually worked fine.

That's quite funny considering how combat-centric the 4e rules are, but makes a lot of sense especially for the kind of fights 4e doesn't handle well, like large scale pitched battles or trivial fights.

Playing Savage Worlds 'War of the Dead' I think it would have worked a lot better with combat as skill check, not tactical minis battle.

Quote from: jhkim;1061828What I find is that people here will readily imagine that any game with the X-card at all is full of people constantly shitting themselves, crying, and/or curling up into balls.

People who worry about "being triggered" are not mentally well.

And based on the social media of people promoting X-cards, these people wear wallowing in their (real or imagined) illness as some kind of badge of honor which is extra mentally unwell.

Quote from: jhkim;1061828What I find in actual practice is that games with the X-card have been roughly the same as games without the X-card.

I believe you and Motorskills regarding your experiences with games involving X-cards.

But here's what I hear: What I find in actual practice is that games with players wearing diapers and sucking pacifiers have been roughly the same as games without players wearing diapers and sucking pacifiers.

Because players wearing diapers and sucking pacifiers isn't healthy adult behavior.

We don't want gamers who refuse basic hygiene. We don't want gamers wallowing in mental illness either.

Quote from: jhkim;1061828So it sounds like you are agreeing with me and disagreeing with Spinachcat, right?

Dude, I disagree with Spinachcat on a regular basis.

Quote from: jhkim;1061828His argument was that if the X-card wasn't touched then it was useless and had no effect. You agree that it looms over the game and thus has an effect even if it isn't actively used.

If unused, its effect is simply virtue signalling.

Quote from: jhkim;1061828As for believing people are basket cases, I don't see that. All that it inherently means is that the GM probably thinks that players overall will enjoy things more with the X-card there than not.

If a GM puts an X-card on the table, they are doing so either to virtue signal or they genuinely believe its needed by the players.

If you think an X-card is needed by your players, you think your players are basket cases who can't play make believe safely.

Quote from: GeekEclectic;1061843Like I'll try stuff pretty much anywhere on the RPG <-> Storygame spectrum, no problem. I find the different mechanics, dynamics, focuses, and whatnot really interesting. But there are a lot of games out there that, while not bad in and of themselves, just attract the absolute whiniest people.

I have no issue with storygames. They're just not RPGs. I love lots of boardgames, card games, war games, LARPS and video games which are also not RPGs. Not being a RPG isn't a bad thing. Plenty of great games aren't RPGs.

Back before the rise of the SJW nonsense during the early days of the Forge, I played several storygames (as it was a new thing and I love new types of games) and I really enjoyed Luke Crane's Burning Empires.

But that was back then with a good crew and even then we noticed how at the local cons, the kinds of people showing up at the Forge-favorite games sessions.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1061908I have no issue with storygames. They're just not RPGs. I love lots of boardgames, card games, war games, LARPS and video games which are also not RPGs.

I've never been clear why LARPs are not RPGs? I thought it was just a different format, like tabletop vs online?

Did carrying a gun for self-defense and using X-cards really get compared to each other?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1061908People who worry about "being triggered" are not mentally well.

And based on the social media of people promoting X-cards, these people wear wallowing in their (real or imagined) illness as some kind of badge of honor which is extra mentally unwell.

Being triggered can be real, but people have got to learn to deal with their shit themselves.

I personally worry about being triggered by barking dogs. Not the "barking in the back yard for fun" or "excited you're home" or "hey someone's at the door" barks, but aggressive dogs that are about to attack (or fight among themselves). I tend to respond through hypervigilance and becoming aggressive back towards them. Afterwards, it can take me 30-60 min to get back into a calm state of mind. It's unseemly and not a badge of honor for me by any means. As a result, I tend to avoid being anywhere near aggressive dogs whenever I can. That said, having dog attacks discussed in an RPG does not even remotely cause me anxiety because I know it's not real.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1061917Did carrying a gun for self-defense and using X-cards really get compared to each other?

Only when trying to take it to Level 11 absurdity.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1061919Only when trying to take it to Level 11 absurdity.

Nothing this absurd should ever receive the honor of Going to 11...

Quote from: HappyDaze;1061918Being triggered can be real, but people have got to learn to deal with their shit themselves.

I personally worry about being triggered by barking dogs. Not the "barking in the back yard for fun" or "excited you're home" or "hey someone's at the door" barks, but aggressive dogs that are about to attack (or fight among themselves). I tend to respond through hypervigilance and becoming aggressive back towards them. Afterwards, it can take me 30-60 min to get back into a calm state of mind. It's unseemly and not a badge of honor for me by any means. As a result, I tend to avoid being anywhere near aggressive dogs whenever I can. That said, having dog attacks discussed in an RPG does not even remotely cause me anxiety because I know it's not real.

So many words have been ruined by NPC dipshittery.

I'm going here again, but what if you're triggered by X-cards?

Quote from: Spinachcat;1061901Absolutely not.

A convention is no more a "safe space" for teens than the mall. Probably less so since malls have wandering mall cops and a gazillion cameras.

As a former con organizer, we had a "Page for Parents" in most con booklets making it clear that while we hope their kids have a great time at the con, all responsibility for the child was solely that of the parent.

Cons =/= day care

I think you are reaching a little here. There's a gulf between physical assault and the protections of a day-care centre. General etiquette rules aim to serve to address that gulf.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1061810I believe the disconnect springs from a surface glance at the "role playing" form of therapy, that thinks it is the much the same thing as "role playing" as a gaming activity.  In reality, they are not the same thing at all.

Thanks for saying that.  It makes so much sense that I wish I'd thought of it myself.

"RPGs are telling stories, therefore they should conform to three-act structures, narrative beats, etc."

"RPGs are improvisational, therefore they should follow the rules of theatrical improv (Say Yes, etc.)"

"RPGs are role-playing, therefore they should incorporate the same safeguards as therapeutic role-playing exercises"

It's all just different flavors of the same BS.

Quote from: nDervish;1061926Thanks for saying that.  It makes so much sense that I wish I'd thought of it myself.

"RPGs are telling stories, therefore they should conform to three-act structures, narrative beats, etc."

"RPGs are improvisational, therefore they should follow the rules of theatrical improv (Say Yes, etc.)"

"RPGs are role-playing, therefore they should incorporate the same safeguards as therapeutic role-playing exercises"

It's all just different flavors of the same BS.

Thanks for this. It has opened my eyes!

Quote from: Motorskills;1061924I think you are reaching a little here. There's a gulf between physical assault and the protections of a day-care centre. General etiquette rules aim to serve to address that gulf.

You were the one reaching when you demanded a Safe Space and conflated physical threat with emotional trauma - the latter being what SS is supposed to prevent.

This armchair psychology is fascinating - and bears zero relation to any of the very many FTF gaming experiences I have had.

Quote from: S'mon;1061932You were the one reaching when you demanded a Safe Space and conflated physical threat with emotional trauma - the latter being what SS is supposed to prevent.

I did? That doesn't sound right, but it's early and I'm otherwise occupied, so I won't push back on that.


Here's where I am. I want conventions (and the hobby as a whole really) to be really warm and welcoming. That doesn't really speak to what games are played, or what horror rating they are played at. I think displayed etiquette rules are good, they serve to address a number of issues. I don't think a gaming convention and a mall are the same thing, and convention organizers have a responsibility to present a warm and welcoming environment. Even so, everyone (including parents) has a duty of care to themselves and those in their charge. I don't have an issue with (the principle of) people using tools to make the gaming experience at an individual table more warm and welcoming to everyone, regardless of the game, mechanics, or tone.