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Author Topic: X-Cards and things  (Read 14204 times)

Altheus

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X-Cards and things
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2018, 03:40:41 PM »
Quote from: jeff37923;1060485
^^This sums it up for me.

I wouldn't want to have someone at my game table who was so psychologically fragile that they insisted on using X-cards.

Thinking further on the subject, I don't know what would make me want to use an X-Card in a game run by any kind of halfway reasonable GM. Undoubtedly there is stuff out there that will fill me with revulsion and I have a couple of phobias but they aren't bad enough to cause a reaction on a description. In all cases I would talk to the GM about any problems I had.

Maybe that's why I don't like the idea, I'm not carrying around enough trauma or psychological stuff to warrant using it but others might be. I get the feeling that I am old, stoic and thick skinned so most things don't affect me, but might affect others.

Alderaan Crumbs

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« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2018, 03:53:11 PM »
Quote from: Lurtch;1060432
I've never used or needed X cards but I dont play with degenerates either.

These are silly make believe games. We slay dragons and hunt trolls, we play cowboys and Indians, or westerns in space.

If you're fucking playing a game and some landwhale or pear shaped engineer wants to start having sex scenes or other bullshit, I'm not getting an x card but I'm getting up and finding new people to play with.

Only weirdos would run a game where an x card would be needed. But we have a lot of weirdos in this hobby.


My first ever foray into online gaming was over Discord, with strangers I met online, to run Blades in the Dark, which is a pretty grim and potentially violent and adult setting. I simply asked the group, one of which was a woman, "What rating do people want?". "Game of Thrones" is apparently now considered a rating, but it worked. ;)

A few moments came up that involved violence and sex and we handled them maturely. It was never an issue. What's funny is I later realized, through out-of-game chat, that those four were pretty Left-leaning. Still, we played for several months until life just happened. It was, overall, a great experience that never needed X-cards.

Where I'm confused is what happens if I'm running a game and a player holds up an X-card but it's not obvious why? Do we play X-Card-a-Mole until the offending topic is smooshed? There's also the issue of a person outing themselves to the group by holding up a card that lets the table know, "This thing bothers me! Now do what's natural and mull it over in your head as to why". I dunno, it just seems better to at most, ask for a break and then talk to whoever you need to in whatever fashion is comfortable.

I see gaming at a table as just another playground: you learn to fight, share, apologize and all the other things considered to be part of social growth, just with less sand. It seems there's a bigger issue of being poorly-socialized people than a problem gaming needs to fix.
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jeff37923

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« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2018, 04:22:48 PM »
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1060507
It seems there's a bigger issue of being poorly-socialized people than a problem gaming needs to fix.


You have just nailed it.

IMHO, the vast majority of the bullshit we are dealing with now in the hobby are the result of poorly-socialized people being allowed to remain poorly-socialized without consequences. The geek social fallacies demonstrate this. Lack of women gamers? The largest reason I've been told why women don't game as often is that they do not want to deal with creepers at the table who don't know how to act socially around them. SJWs getting offended about gaming products and people they find "problematic"? People using their social ineptness as playing pieces in the Oppression Olympics to see who can be the biggest victim while trying to bully others because they enjoy different games. Catpissmen? Gamers who have not been told to get some self-respect and take care of their personal hygiene because they are part of the game group. Lawncrappers? Gamers who haven't been reeled in from doing stupid shit because they cannot discern the difference between good attention and bad attention. It seems to me that a lot of this stems from people being socially retarded and others not looking at them and telling them to quit acting that way. This ain't hard to figure out. If a gamer can read a 300 page book of rules and understand them, then they can damn well get their shit together enough to act like a normal human being - but only if they are told and there are negative consequences to their continued bad behavior.

OK, I'm jumping off of my soapbox now.
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fearsomepirate
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« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2018, 04:31:55 PM »
Quote from: jeff37923;1060509
The largest reason I've been told why women don't game as often is that they do not want to deal with creepers at the table who don't know how to act socially around them.


If only socially inept geeks would come up with a hobby of their own and a build their own place to play it instead of trying to take tabletop RPGs and game shops away from women.

Quote
Lawncrappers?


Whoa, wait a minute.
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Alderaan Crumbs

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« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2018, 04:45:16 PM »
jeff37923, from your box of soaps truths are spoken!

I gamed for a brief stint with a guy who said he had crippling anxiety. Fine, that sucks, "Who am I to judge?", etc. However, when said anxiety crippled him and he said he needed to bow out of the game, he then became upset by proxy (another player was bullied into being his mouthpiece) and we learned our polite understanding of his need to pull back and deal with his anxiety itself caused more anxiety. This Gordian Knot of attention-whoring became more obvious when I offered an olive branch of private conversation and quickly realized that what he was going to need constant care, arguing the whole way. It was like having a Chia Pet that whined but never grew. So, his hiatus became permanent.

I. Don’t. Need. That. Shit.

None of us do.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 04:48:08 PM by Alderaan Crumbs »
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fearsomepirate
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« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2018, 05:27:23 PM »
This whole X-Card thing seems to only be "necessary" if you have a socially broken DM or a socially broken player, or both.
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robiswrong

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« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2018, 05:32:19 PM »
The idea that I'd be so sensitive to something that I couldn't just say "hey, knock that out" is foreign to me.

The idea that the people playing would need a hard "rule" saying that they would have to listen to that is, also, foreign to me.

But if someone feels that they need it, and can't game without it?  Weird, I guess, but fine.  

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1060507
It seems there's a bigger issue of being poorly-socialized people than a problem gaming needs to fix.

I've played hockey (on hiatus).  I play video games (hell, I make 'em).  I play music.  I've flown model planes.

TTRPGs have the highest percentage of people with horrible, tremendously horrible, social skills of any hobby I've dealt with.  Computer games are a reasonably close second.

Xuc Xac

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« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2018, 06:43:55 PM »
Quote from: robiswrong;1060525
The idea that I'd be so sensitive to something that I couldn't just say "hey, knock that out" is foreign to me.


I've never used the x-card thing, but I don't see the big deal. Saying "hey, knock that out" interrupts the flow of the game and breaks the mood. A nice non-verbal signal that lets you wave the DM away from something that grosses you out keeps things moving smoothly for everyone.

Also, just because one player taps out, that doesn't mean they're a special snowflake. It just means they tapped out first. Maybe all your players think you're a creep who needs to back off the lovingly detailed description of cannibal clown rape, but they didn't all use the x-card simultaneously so you just see the first one.

jeff37923

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« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2018, 06:45:00 PM »
Quote from: fearsomepirate;1060512
If only socially inept geeks would come up with a hobby of their own and a build their own place to play it instead of trying to take tabletop RPGs and game shops away
They've got Fantasy Football for that.  :D
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Steven Mitchell

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« Reply #39 on: October 16, 2018, 07:29:50 PM »
I always feel a little like an anthropologist in these conversations, "X-carders in the mists" (to twist the simile).

1. On the one hand, anyone that thinks they need an X-card in any game I was in, is a special snowflake that needs to straighten out their personality disorders before they do any roleplaying--or is lying or otherwise has some other agenda.  

2. On the other, I can see intellectually how someone running a game right on the edge of something horrific would want a non-verbal way for everyone involved to signal, "Stop!"  I get it.  It's similar to what is used in psychological counseling when trying to confront something horrific.  It's only that the desire to run a game up to that edge is so utterly alien to my desires, I cannot fully understand or empathize with it.  There is no way I want to mix serious counseling with my games.  Serious counseling is a lot of good things, but one thing it is not is pleasant and diverting.

3. However, what I suspect is occurring with some of these sillier instances is people roleplaying the victim.  Not in the usual gaming sense of "roleplaying" but in the psychological sense.  They want to "confront their fears" or otherwise get that little thrill of having survived something "dangerous" but they know their background doesn't warrant it.  It's playing at being serious.  

I would venture that if you found a way to study it, that last group would be disproportionally from a "sheltered" background.  I'd even go so far as to guess more second or third generation "upper middle class" than simply "middle class."

jhkim

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« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2018, 07:31:38 PM »
How some people talk here about the X-card is at odds with my experience. I've played in over a dozen games with the X-card at conventions. The GM explains it, the players nod, and then the game goes on otherwise like it otherwise would. I haven't seen it used in any of those sessions. It's seen as a safety net, not something to indulge in regularly. The people who used it seem pretty functional socially as far as I can see.

If someone really really is bothered by just the idea of an X-card and it would drive you up the wall for it to be used, then sure, rant against it.  But rant against what it's actually like in play.

Steven Mitchell

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« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2018, 07:52:29 PM »
Who is ranting?  I think the X-card makes an excellent signal.  As soon as it appears on the table, I'm out.  Either the game is going to be about something potentially nasty (and thus not to my taste), or the GM thinks that some of the players are potentially snowflakes (also not too my tastes in a different way) or the GM is incorrect or pandering or perhaps merely being cautious.  In the latter cases, I'm possibly abandoning an alright game, but life is too short.  Also, there is a really good chance that I'm not a good fit for that table, even if the game is OK.  So it is the polite thing to do to get out early.

Zalman

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« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2018, 11:26:17 PM »
Quote from: fearsomepirate;1060512
If only socially inept geeks would come up with a hobby of their own and a build their own place to play it instead of trying to take tabletop RPGs and game shops away from women.


This is absolutely brilliant. I'm just going to sign off for the night right here.
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Motorskills

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« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2018, 12:13:53 AM »
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1060544
Who is ranting?  I think the X-card makes an excellent signal.  As soon as it appears on the table, I'm out.  Either the game is going to be about something potentially nasty (and thus not to my taste), or the GM thinks that some of the players are potentially snowflakes (also not too my tastes in a different way) or the GM is incorrect or pandering or perhaps merely being cautious.  In the latter cases, I'm possibly abandoning an alright game, but life is too short.  Also, there is a really good chance that I'm not a good fit for that table, even if the game is OK.  So it is the polite thing to do to get out early.



I've had plenty of sub-par table experiences (at conventions) over the decades. These have mostly been boredom (due to an unprepared DM or a lame adventure), and occasionally a terrible DM (combination of inexperience and poor preparation). Once or twice it's been an obnoxious player (typically some kind of alpha that shouts other players down, challenges the DM all the way along, that kind of thing).
I don't think an X-card would have helped in any of those situations.

But I've got to say I'm with @jhkim here. I've been on maybe half-a-dozen tables (all but one at Gen Con) where an X-card has been on display. I don't think it guarantees anything, I don't think it restricts anything.

I've never once seen it used.

But nevertheless I do think it has value. I think it's there as a message that the DM is available and willing to take feedback, and to remind everyone that we are all there to have fun.
Sure I think players have some responsibility to not sign up for games that they might have a bad reaction to, but honestly, at Gen Con especially, it's really hard to tell beyond identifying the general genre, the paragraph descriptions can't really do the session justice.
Beyond that, I love signing up blind for stuff, trying out games and themes I have little knowledge about. I've come across some amazing gems over the years.

I think the above really only applies to conventions or pick-up store games. One of my friends (an excellent CoC Keeper) hosted a home game for a couple of new people. It ended terribly, the new players were shocked by the horror content, which was, my friend admits, maybe too graphic for a pick-up game.
Would an X-card have saved that situation? Impossible to know. But I think my friend would have liked the opportunity to be advised earlier than his guests / players were bouncing off the content much harder than he had appreciated.

But where I disagree with you is your reticence to even sit down at the table. At Gen Con at least, the X-card seems to be a room/organizer thing, or a publisher thing. It doesn't really say anything about the GM, the game / mechanics, or the other players. The only person you would be hurting is yourself.
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Spinachcat

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« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2018, 04:51:39 AM »
I was in a group with "varied food needs" and instead of compromising, we simply ate before the game and brought our own personal snacks.

Problem solved.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1060544
I think the X-card makes an excellent signal.  As soon as it appears on the table, I'm out.

LOL. Agreed.

Quote from: jhkim;1060543
I haven't seen it used in any of those sessions.

Quote from: Motorskills;1060557
I've never once seen it used.

So it's virtue signalling bullshit. How surprising.