I was reading this review of Golgotha and was surprised after presenting it as OSR that it doesn't have the GM roll dice at all. I have run ICONs before which uses such a mechanic and while interesting it does change the experience of the game. Would you still consider this an OSR game?

I think the Pundit doesn't like it because he thinks that it makes the PC's the center of the world.

I've run the Cypher system and I love it. The game was still very gritty and osr-like and the PC's were not the center of the world.

I love rolling dice, but I in practice it's even easier to run a game where I don't have to roll.

I'm interested in Symbaorum, which is a no-gm-roll system, but I've read that it's very easy to create a broken PC in that.

I don't think it's an OSR game though. We should probably reserve that term for things that are like the older games otherwise it looses it's meaning.

Its been suggested for D&D fairly far back now and then in Dragon for example. But there it was not for ALL rolls. Just ones that the DM did not need to micromanage usually.

Sounds good on paper. But in practice you need players who are not prone to cheating otherwise the system fails worse than miserably.

Recently we had a thread on Symbaroum brought this up. Though many seem to totally misunderstand the system. That is an RPG designed so combats are handled in just a few rolls that only the players make. The monsters are just effectively target numbers. No rolls are made for them.

Rather than a game that just takes away the ability to roll from the GM because whatever reasons. Some benign, some very not. And its the very not faction that has so manydistrustful of "players only roll" rules.

Sounds very Meh? to me

No rolling dice for the GM?  WTF kind of fun is that!

I didn't horde dice for 35+ years for nothing!  (silly me it should have been toilet paper all this time, who knew?)

If one of my players was so distrusting of me as the GM.  They will need to find another GM

I didn't waste all those hours on crafting my world just for it to be GM vs Player.   If that's the case what would be the point since the GM can just hand wave stuff an it just happens.

Its fun watching all my plans explode due to something a player comes up with out of left field then I get to roll with their zany actions for that session and then work out another plan for them to blow up on me

That's where I get my fun from.  Watching the players come up cleaver use of spells, like back in the day using shocking grasp + decanter of endless water as a weapon of mass destruction vs low level creatures

Golgotha is based on the Black Hack. The players roll to hit, and to dodge, but the GM still rolls for everything else: damage, reaction, random encounters, etc.  The game itself is frickin gorgeous, tightly focused on epic science fiction dungeon delving: there are some really neat scifi dungeons presented in the book. (no maps though).  

The only place where I find it falls down is in some of the GM resources: they need better charts and tables for generating really interesting traps and puzzles, as well as truly alien ancient aliens that have left all sorts of strange artifacts.  Som you'll be looking for supplemental books from Sine Nomine or whatever to build new Golgothas for the players.

GM doesn't get to roll dice...hard pass.

I don't know that the question of rolling dice has anything to do with the OSR, other than a lot of people who enjoy OSR games are also the types that will enjoy rolling their own dice.

I've got nothing against a system that makes it easy for the GM to farm some or even most rolls out to the players, as desired.  I have little interest in running a game where the system makes it a rule that the GM doesn't roll dice.  That's even more inflexible than original D&D.

That is part of the thing really.

You have standard RPGs where the DM can allocate rolls to the players to handle. Or even take over rolling everything. But that is the DM's choice. Bog standard and goes back to early RPGs and even D&D.

Then you have standard RPGs where the designer for whatever reason, usually forge/swine related, wants to curb the tyranny if the DM and put the power in the players hands. Some dont go so over the top. But there was a couple of these a few years ago. Some try to paint themselves as OSR games. But more than a few excise too much of the DM to be OSR.

And of course you have games that are barely RPGs and the GM is oft either heavily shackled or totally eliminated.

You can go a perfectly fine RPG where the DM doesnt need to roll much yet is not shackled. Symbaroum is a good example.

I've done the No-GM roll in a couple games, so its all PCs reacting to the world and its okay. I didn't find it an advancement, but it wasn't bad either. Just different. I wouldn't want to do it for all RPGs, but I might be good with a particular RPG for that experience.

As for "is it OSR?", that's tricky. Without reading Golgotha, I can't say yes or no. But I don't see why the "No GM Roll" mechanic could not be used in a OSR game without compromising what makes an OSR game special. The player is not rolling the dice and telling the GM what happens next.

For instance, the GM normally rolls the stealth of the monster. Here, the player would roll to hear the monster. Either way, the monster is under the GM control.

In the very early days, the DM rolled all the dice - so no, probably not.

Nope, I don't think it can be, Randomness is baked into the OSR - take wandering monsters. If the GM never rolls, when do wandering monsters turn up? If a player rolls for this, then that is just effectively the GM rolling for it. Surprise? Initiative? These are all things that are core to OSR.

I love rolling dice. As my groups GM I don't think I could even consider an rpg that doesn't want me to roll dice.

I've personally given up any thought of defining the OSR. Most people consider it to be restricted to D&D clones, so in that sense, I would say no. The innovations of The Black Hack and its derivatives are great, though, and not having to roll most dice is very liberating as a referee.

It wouldn't feel Old School to me, so no. Old School gaming requires GM authority which for me includes the ability to roll dice. Only-GM-rolls can be old school & OSR, but not GM-never-rolls.

Whether there's any dice doesn't have anything to do with it. The dice are just there to randomly resolve certain facets of the game -- but if the game system already provides another way to do that, say by fiat, then you don't need the dice. The thing that makes OSR the OSR is the lethality and lightweightness of it, so if you can get that but without the dice, it's fine.