WotC's upcoming #dragonlance and #spelljammer books were made without any consultation from the original designers. It's easy to guess how they plan to ruin Dragonlance for its fans, but can they even ruin Spelljammer?

While input from Jeff Grubb would've been nice (and probably not a bad idea), legally he doesn't have a dog in the fight (I believe he said as much).

Weis and Hickman are a different story. But I don't know the details of how the IPs are held.

Boo fucking hoo. That's what happens when you sell the rights to your shit.

Hey pundit. Watched the video. Another good one. I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice that the "good" guys were women, and not only women, but women of color (one or two or all might even be trans....we don't know), and that the "bad" guys were men (white men, probably straight too).

Here's the thing that hit me when thinking about the sjdubs. They supposedly want equality and equal representation right? Well the truth hit me that no group truly wants equality. If any group is okay with alienating another group then what you really crave is power to get your way. (I know I know, there are groups that we are okay with alienating, like nazi's).

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 26, 2022, 08:21:44 AM
Boo fucking hoo. That's what happens when you sell the rights to your shit.

Fucking entitled plebs and their belief that they have a right to have a say on the matter! Who do they think they are? Corporations? 

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 26, 2022, 07:18:35 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 26, 2022, 08:21:44 AM
Boo fucking hoo. That's what happens when you sell the rights to your shit.

Fucking entitled plebs and their belief that they have a right to have a say on the matter! Who do they think they are? Corporations? 

Don't talk to the groomer, man. It never ends well.

In any case, I'm pretty sure Grubb has no legal say, but was merely waxing nostalgic.

Weis and Hickman, though... that may be a different kettle of fish.

Plus, if they shit things up, only the retard brigade like Tubesnake's going to buy it. The OG grognards sure won't -- they've been burned too many times (hello, Strixhaven!).

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 26, 2022, 07:18:35 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 26, 2022, 08:21:44 AM
Boo fucking hoo. That's what happens when you sell the rights to your shit.

Fucking entitled plebs and their belief that they have a right to have a say on the matter! Who do they think they are? Corporations? 

Nice strawman, dickhead. But whether it's a corporation or an individual makes no difference. They sold the rights to these settings lock, stock and barrel. For they - or anyone else - to act as if they are being treated unfairly, is nothing but crybaby bullshit.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on April 26, 2022, 10:03:13 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 26, 2022, 07:18:35 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 26, 2022, 08:21:44 AM
Boo fucking hoo. That's what happens when you sell the rights to your shit.

Fucking entitled plebs and their belief that they have a right to have a say on the matter! Who do they think they are? Corporations? 

Don't talk to the groomer, man. It never ends well.

No need to bring your two dads into this.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 26, 2022, 07:18:35 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 26, 2022, 08:21:44 AM
Boo fucking hoo. That's what happens when you sell the rights to your shit.

Fucking entitled plebs and their belief that they have a right to have a say on the matter! Who do they think they are? Corporations? 

I mean, technically they do have a choice in that you can avoid purchasing any of these skinsuit products. However, I do agree that there needs to be better measures to protect against corporate IP bullying.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on April 26, 2022, 10:03:13 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 26, 2022, 07:18:35 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 26, 2022, 08:21:44 AM
Boo fucking hoo. That's what happens when you sell the rights to your shit.

Fucking entitled plebs and their belief that they have a right to have a say on the matter! Who do they think they are? Corporations? 

Don't talk to the groomer, man. It never ends well.

In any case, I'm pretty sure Grubb has no legal say, but was merely waxing nostalgic.

Weis and Hickman, though... that may be a different kettle of fish.

Weis & Hickman have no legal say, but for numerous reasons, a large portion of the fanbase won't regard a DL done without them as legitimate—and DL's fanbase isn't large enough that you can alienate that big a chunk of it. If WotC can't sell this to their brave new audience, it's likely to be a financial disappointment as well as a creative one.

Quote from: Ghostmaker on April 26, 2022, 10:03:13 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 26, 2022, 07:18:35 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 26, 2022, 08:21:44 AM
Boo fucking hoo. That's what happens when you sell the rights to your shit.

Fucking entitled plebs and their belief that they have a right to have a say on the matter! Who do they think they are? Corporations? 

Don't talk to the groomer, man. It never ends well.

In any case, I'm pretty sure Grubb has no legal say, but was merely waxing nostalgic.

Weis and Hickman, though... that may be a different kettle of fish.

Plus, if they shit things up, only the retard brigade like Tubesnake's going to buy it. The OG grognards sure won't -- they've been burned too many times (hello, Strixhaven!).

RE: Spelljammer, I doubt they will mess it up to much, beyond the usual arbitrary changes that make no sense with the established lore. But as Pundit pointed out in the video and others have pointed out in other occasions as well, SJ sort of lends itself to the random kitchen sink approach WotC has taken up for current D&D, so it might see moderate success (except maybe for the ridiculous $70 three pamphlet boxed set I've heard about).

RE: Dragonlance, I'm sure a lot of idiots who lap anything WotC puts out will buy it initially, and it will probably see some hate sales from wokesters eager to see DL ruined for the imagined crimes of bigotry that they've projected into the authors' work and the idea that WotC will now sanitize it for a "modern audience". But I have to wonder how well the setting will do on hate sales alone and purchases from people who don't know better, without the support of actual DL fans.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 26, 2022, 10:03:17 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 26, 2022, 07:18:35 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 26, 2022, 08:21:44 AM
Boo fucking hoo. That's what happens when you sell the rights to your shit.

Fucking entitled plebs and their belief that they have a right to have a say on the matter! Who do they think they are? Corporations? 

Nice strawman, dickhead. But whether it's a corporation or an individual makes no difference. They sold the rights to these settings lock, stock and barrel. For they - or anyone else - to act as if they are being treated unfairly, is nothing but crybaby bullshit.

Won't somebody think of the shareholders? 

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 26, 2022, 10:03:57 PM

Quote from: Ghostmaker on April 26, 2022, 10:03:13 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 26, 2022, 07:18:35 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 26, 2022, 08:21:44 AM
Boo fucking hoo. That's what happens when you sell the rights to your shit.

Fucking entitled plebs and their belief that they have a right to have a say on the matter! Who do they think they are? Corporations? 

Don't talk to the groomer, man. It never ends well.

No need to bring your two dads into this.

Progressive AF.

Quote from: Zelen on April 26, 2022, 10:04:52 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 26, 2022, 07:18:35 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 26, 2022, 08:21:44 AM
Boo fucking hoo. That's what happens when you sell the rights to your shit.

Fucking entitled plebs and their belief that they have a right to have a say on the matter! Who do they think they are? Corporations? 

I mean, technically they do have a choice in that you can avoid purchasing any of these skinsuit products. However, I do agree that there needs to be better measures to protect against corporate IP bullying.

I doubt any actual fans will be buying these books.

It's interesting how the only people who seem to take issue with corporations anymore are those who don't subscribe to the "left".

They screwed up Forgotten Realms already, it's about time that they did it to the other major settings. They'll get around to ruining Greyhawk too somehow.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2022, 01:34:17 AM
RE: Spelljammer, I doubt they will mess it up to much, beyond the usual arbitrary changes that make no sense with the established lore. But as Pundit pointed out in the video and others have pointed out in other occasions as well, SJ sort of lends itself to the random kitchen sink approach WotC has taken up for current D&D, so it might see moderate success (except maybe for the ridiculous $70 three pamphlet boxed set I've heard about).

This cost complaint is amusing when a ton of folks have bought the $70 OSE box sets restating rules from two booklets.

Ignore Cucksuck Soyarmy he is not here to discuss to Troll us on general principles.

Beyond the oh so socially progressive trailer nothing interests me about either product

Why because they will turn both settings into the equivalent of boring Vanilla Ice cream.

Regarding " their new take " on the Three orders of Sorcery they still exist yet players can be any kind of Wizard if they desire so anything goes. What's next you can call yourself a Knight of Solmania without any belief in the actual Solmanic order. Fuck that shit. 

If one is going to remove the lire of both settings and go with an anything and everything goes mindset nothing is left of setting lore. What's the ponit of rebooting both sethings. To turn each into generic boring as vanilla ice cream A and B.