Quote from: migo on April 27, 2022, 07:30:28 AM
They screwed up Forgotten Realms already, it's about time that they did it to the other major settings. They'll get around to ruining Greyhawk too somehow.

LOL. My thoughts exactly. Since their purpose is to 'cleanse' the undesirable elements. And here's the beautiful thing. WotC can do whatever the hurk they want with the settings because they own them. But, they're not my Dragonlance, or my FR, or my Greyhawk (or my Drow lore etc). WotC has already loudly proclaimed they don't want my money. I've got plenty of setting material, I really don't need more "official" content.

Quote from: Palleon on April 27, 2022, 07:39:05 AM
This cost complaint is amusing when a ton of folks have bought the $70 OSE box sets restating rules from two booklets.

Agreed. I'm rather astonished at OSE. I mean I'm sure it's a fine game....but one I already own cheaply (with the RC POD from drivethru). And about the only argument I hear is ... well it's better organized. And while organization can be important, I've never had a problem with my RC. So.....eh

Quote from: Abraxus on April 27, 2022, 07:39:44 AM
Ignore Cucksuck Soyarmy he is not here to discuss to Troll us on general principles.

Uh-huh. Ignore the guy who brought up the valid point that after selling your IP, you have no reasonable expectation of future involvement with said IP. It's the ones autistically flapping their hands while reflexively screeching, "groomercommiesoyboycuck", apropos of nothing, that are arguing in good faith.

Also, why not Tubesuck? Tubecuck? Jesus, you guys even suck at insults. Then again, I've seen what passes for gaming discourse here, so I'm not surprised.

Oh fuck off you disingenuous twat.

You don't get to play the victim or claim to hold the moral high ground when you have shown to simply be trolling in most cases. Every so often I will admit you can make a valid point.

Usually it so you can get a reaction from those here and nothing else.

So keep trolling Troll.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 27, 2022, 09:52:22 AM

Quote from: Abraxus on April 27, 2022, 07:39:44 AM
Ignore Cucksuck Soyarmy he is not here to discuss to Troll us on general principles.

Uh-huh. Ignore the guy who brought up the valid point that after selling your IP, you have no reasonable expectation of future involvement with said IP. It's the ones autistically flapping their hands while reflexively screeching, "groomercommiesoyboycuck", apropos of nothing, that are arguing in good faith.

Also, why not Tubesuck? Tubecuck? Jesus, you guys even suck at insults. Then again, I've seen what passes for gaming discourse here, so I'm not surprised.

Have you heard of the 'Boy Who Cried Wolf'? Do you understand the point of it? Once a troll, always a troll. You don't get to take your troll hat off and be taken seriously. If you accidentally make a valid point, it's exactly that - an accident. You were still trolling, because a troll is all you are and ever will be.

Quote from: Palleon on April 27, 2022, 07:39:05 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2022, 01:34:17 AM
RE: Spelljammer, I doubt they will mess it up to much, beyond the usual arbitrary changes that make no sense with the established lore. But as Pundit pointed out in the video and others have pointed out in other occasions as well, SJ sort of lends itself to the random kitchen sink approach WotC has taken up for current D&D, so it might see moderate success (except maybe for the ridiculous $70 three pamphlet boxed set I've heard about).

This cost complaint is amusing when a ton of folks have bought the $70 OSE box sets restating rules from two booklets.

No box set is worth $70, unless it includes a bunch of miniatures and such. No matter how many idiots are willing to pay for it.

Quote from: Abraxus on April 27, 2022, 07:39:44 AM
Ignore Cucksuck Soyarmy he is not here to discuss to Troll us on general principles.

I don't take him seriously. I'm just trolling back.

Quote from: Abraxus on April 27, 2022, 07:39:44 AM
If one is going to remove the lire of both settings and go with an anything and everything goes mindset nothing is left of setting lore. What's the ponit of rebooting both sethings. To turn each into generic boring as vanilla ice cream A and B.

The point is to SuBvErT an existing property that has been declared bigoted by the usual suspects and shit all over it as an act of dominance. At least with DL.

With SJ they just want to steal something cool and make it their own, cuz they cannot create anything original, only corrupt what others have created.

Quote from: migo on April 27, 2022, 10:43:19 AM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 27, 2022, 09:52:22 AM

Quote from: Abraxus on April 27, 2022, 07:39:44 AM
Ignore Cucksuck Soyarmy he is not here to discuss to Troll us on general principles.

Uh-huh. Ignore the guy who brought up the valid point that after selling your IP, you have no reasonable expectation of future involvement with said IP. It's the ones autistically flapping their hands while reflexively screeching, "groomercommiesoyboycuck", apropos of nothing, that are arguing in good faith.

Also, why not Tubesuck? Tubecuck? Jesus, you guys even suck at insults. Then again, I've seen what passes for gaming discourse here, so I'm not surprised.

Have you heard of the 'Boy Who Cried Wolf'? Do you understand the point of it? Once a troll, always a troll. You don't get to take your troll hat off and be taken seriously. If you accidentally make a valid point, it's exactly that - an accident. You were still trolling, because a troll is all you are and ever will be.

It's always fun when they pretend to be both offended and clueless as to why no one here wants yo believe them anymore.

As you said cry wolf too many times and I'm not going to listen to what one has to say.

Unfortunately I expect more fake cluelessness and doubling down on the trolling. 

Quote from: Abraxus on April 27, 2022, 10:01:19 AM
Oh fuck off you disingenuous twat.

You don't get to play the victim or claim to hold the moral high ground when you have shown to simply be trolling in most cases. Every so often I will admit you can make a valid point.

Usually it so you can get a reaction from those here and nothing else.

So keep trolling Troll.

No victim here, I find it hilarious, as always. But do go on about "victimhood" as you sidestep my honestly made point with weak excuses not to engage, all while blubbering about "good faith".

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 27, 2022, 11:34:49 AM

Quote from: Abraxus on April 27, 2022, 10:01:19 AM
Oh fuck off you disingenuous twat.

You don't get to play the victim or claim to hold the moral high ground when you have shown to simply be trolling in most cases. Every so often I will admit you can make a valid point.

Usually it so you can get a reaction from those here and nothing else.

So keep trolling Troll.

No victim here, I find it hilarious, as always. But do go on about "victimhood" as you sidestep my honestly made point with weak excuses not to engage, all while blubbering about "good faith".

It's no surprise that you would put good faith in scare quotes and say talking about it is blubbering, because as a troll, good faith is something that couldn't be more alien to you.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2022, 11:29:53 AM
With SJ they just want to steal something cool and make it their own, cuz they cannot create anything original, only corrupt what others have created.

Exactly. Back in around 2004 Darkfuries published their own take on spelljammer called "Aether & Flux." While it used realistic outer space rules as a basis, it them added on the concepts of aether and flux to allow for fantasy space travel. Aether (derived from the obsolete scientific theory of luminiferous aether) was a substance or force that was present everywhere but the density changed depending on its distance from gravity wells; it's basically stellar winds. On the edges of star systems it formed a sphere known as the pale aether (derived from the idiom "beyond the pale"), beyond which FTL speeds were possible and thus interstellar space was also called "the traverse" because it was used almost entirely for traversing between systems a la hyperspace or SJ's phlogiston. Flux was a force used solely to allow space travel without spelljammers: it was basically electricity that repelled aether and thus could be used to create the fantasy (steampunk?) equivalent of solar sails, artificial gravity, atmosphere scrubbers, and even lightning canons. (The name is derived from the flux capacitor device used to generate it, itself a reference to the Back to the Future movies.) Unfortunately, the PDF isn't currently available on Drivethrurpg due to technical issues that started three years ago. (Thankfully I bought the PDF before that happened.) I've contacted both drivethrurpg and author Brian Moseley to no avail. I find that frustrating because it's a unique concept that I haven't seen implemented anywhere else. Other D&D space travel settings use not!spelljammers or transplanted scifi tech instead. Aether & Flux strikes me as more steampunk than anything else.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 27, 2022, 09:52:22 AM

Quote from: Abraxus on April 27, 2022, 07:39:44 AM
Ignore Cucksuck Soyarmy he is not here to discuss to Troll us on general principles.

Uh-huh. Ignore the guy who brought up the valid point that after selling your IP, you have no reasonable expectation of future involvement with said IP. It's the ones autistically flapping their hands while reflexively screeching, "groomercommiesoyboycuck", apropos of nothing, that are arguing in good faith.

Also, why not Tubesuck? Tubecuck? Jesus, you guys even suck at insults. Then again, I've seen what passes for gaming discourse here, so I'm not surprised.

No defense of the sacred right of corporations or copyright holders of IPs they didn't even create is ever valid. Specially when they haven't even used them in decades, but have simply lorded them over them as "owners".

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 27, 2022, 12:08:10 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2022, 11:29:53 AM
With SJ they just want to steal something cool and make it their own, cuz they cannot create anything original, only corrupt what others have created.

Exactly. Back in around 2004 Darkfuries published their own take on spelljammer called "Aether & Flux." While it used realistic outer space rules as a basis, it them added on the concepts of aether and flux to allow for fantasy space travel. Aether (derived from the obsolete scientific theory of luminiferous aether) was a substance or force that was present everywhere but the density changed depending on its distance from gravity wells; it's basically stellar winds. On the edges of star systems it formed a sphere known as the pale aether (derived from the idiom "beyond the pale"), beyond which FTL speeds were possible and thus interstellar space was also called "the traverse" because it was used almost entirely for traversing between systems a la hyperspace or SJ's phlogiston. Flux was a force used solely to allow space travel without spelljammers: it was basically electricity that repelled aether and thus could be used to create the fantasy (steampunk?) equivalent of solar sails, artificial gravity, atmosphere scrubbers, and even lightning canons. (The name is derived from the flux capacitor device used to generate it, itself a reference to the Back to the Future movies.) Unfortunately, the PDF isn't currently available on Drivethrurpg due to technical issues that started three years ago. (Thankfully I bought the PDF before that happened.) I've contacted both drivethrurpg and author Brian Moseley to no avail. I find that frustrating because it's a unique concept that I haven't seen implemented anywhere else. Other D&D space travel settings use not!spelljammers or transplanted scifi tech instead. Aether & Flux strikes me as more steampunk than anything else.

Interesting take. Unfortunately there's no PDFs to be found, as you pointed out. Coincidentally, I used the term "Flux" in a dimension-hopping setting I've had in the backburner for years, but its meaning there was closer to "Aether" here, or the idea of a core substance from which everything else in reality is created.

Quote from: migo on April 27, 2022, 07:30:28 AM
They screwed up Forgotten Realms already, it's about time that they did it to the other major settings. They'll get around to ruining Greyhawk too somehow.

The OSR has got you covered, it's called Iron Falcon IIRC, and it's from the same folks as BFMAG.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2022, 01:11:30 PM
Interesting take. Unfortunately there's no PDFs to be found, as you pointed out.

You could try buying a physical copy on their website: http://www.darkfuries.com/books/pi4001.html

I'd lend you a copy of my PDF, but drivethrurpg has this policy where they'll delete your account if you do that. Even if it is due to a technical issue that they caused and that they refuse to fix. I have verified the pdf myself and there's nothing wrong it. Argh!

Fuck you copyright law.

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2022, 01:11:30 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 27, 2022, 09:52:22 AM

Quote from: Abraxus on April 27, 2022, 07:39:44 AM
Ignore Cucksuck Soyarmy he is not here to discuss to Troll us on general principles.

Uh-huh. Ignore the guy who brought up the valid point that after selling your IP, you have no reasonable expectation of future involvement with said IP. It's the ones autistically flapping their hands while reflexively screeching, "groomercommiesoyboycuck", apropos of nothing, that are arguing in good faith.

Also, why not Tubesuck? Tubecuck? Jesus, you guys even suck at insults. Then again, I've seen what passes for gaming discourse here, so I'm not surprised.

No defense of the sacred right of corporations or copyright holders of IPs they didn't even create is ever valid. Specially when they haven't even used them in decades, but have simply lorded them over them as "owners".

Um they're selling those products right now and have been for years you utter doorknob.

And I'm not defending corporations, I'm defending the right to own something once someone has willingly and legally sold it to you. It's called capitalism, you might wanna look into it sometime.

This reminds me of Harlan Ellison getting his panties in a wad every time anyone produced anything from IP he sold. Or Alan Moore, or any other crybaby fuck who had no problem taking the money for selling their work, but later on wants to break down and cry every time for-profit companies don't line up to suck the dick of their "artistic vision".

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 27, 2022, 01:29:10 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2022, 01:11:30 PM
Interesting take. Unfortunately there's no PDFs to be found, as you pointed out.

You could try buying a physical copy on their website: http://www.darkfuries.com/books/pi4001.html

I'd lend you a copy of my PDF, but drivethrurpg has this policy where they'll delete your account if you do that. Even if it is due to a technical issue that they caused and that they refuse to fix. I have verified the pdf myself and there's nothing wrong it. Argh!

Fuck you copyright law.

It's OK. I'll just go with what I can find online for now since I'm mostly just curious about it and get the book eventually if I want more.

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 27, 2022, 01:55:34 PM

Quote from: VisionStorm on April 27, 2022, 01:11:30 PM

Quote from: Tubesock Army on April 27, 2022, 09:52:22 AM

Quote from: Abraxus on April 27, 2022, 07:39:44 AM
Ignore Cucksuck Soyarmy he is not here to discuss to Troll us on general principles.

Uh-huh. Ignore the guy who brought up the valid point that after selling your IP, you have no reasonable expectation of future involvement with said IP. It's the ones autistically flapping their hands while reflexively screeching, "groomercommiesoyboycuck", apropos of nothing, that are arguing in good faith.

Also, why not Tubesuck? Tubecuck? Jesus, you guys even suck at insults. Then again, I've seen what passes for gaming discourse here, so I'm not surprised.

No defense of the sacred right of corporations or copyright holders of IPs they didn't even create is ever valid. Specially when they haven't even used them in decades, but have simply lorded them over them as "owners".

Um they're selling those products right now and have been for years you utter doorknob.

And I'm not defending corporations, I'm defending the right to own something once someone has willingly and legally sold it to you. It's called capitalism, you might wanna look into it sometime.

This reminds me of Harlan Ellison getting his panties in a wad every time anyone produced anything from IP he sold. Or Alan Moore, or any other crybaby fuck who had no problem taking the money for selling their work, but later on wants to break down and cry every time for-profit companies don't line up to suck the dick of their "artistic vision".

Copyright laws are largely bullshit and exist mostly to benefit corporations with enough money to enforce them rather than actual creators, making any defense of them defacto defense of corporations, unless you're actually defending a penniless artist having their material stolen or abused. They're so full of shit there's even libertarian arguments against them--that's how well regarded they are, even by people who are actual fan of capitalism. They simply exist so that greedy soulless corporations can profit indefinitely from works created by other people.