Quote from: Bren;914716Long ago I had a training job. Periodically we had to tape a class and watch it. All of us found watching ourselves a bit painful, but it was a great way to spot any odd verbal or body language tics that one has. I learned that I was a pacer.

I wonder how many tapes one has to listen to before one's voice doesn't sound odd.

After being in several bands from age 15 to 30, I got used to hearing my own voice. Now when I watch re-watch a review I've done on YouTube, my voice bothers me very little. The "Uhs" annoy the crap out of me though. Also, I need to look at the camera more. I'm used to public speaking. I teach Sunday School. But staring at a camera is a habit I am having trouble to develop.

Quote from: Bren;914716I wonder how many tapes one has to listen to before one's voice doesn't sound odd.

I've been a professional voice over/actor and I occasionally still do it on the side.

You never get used to hearing yourself. It's slightly better when you're doing character work, because then you're usually using a different voice and it's supposed to sound different.  But I cringe when I have to review my audiobook work.  I sound like Jim Henson.

Quote from: estar;914684I concur, tabletop roleplaying strongest advantage is the flexibility of the human referee and ease of prep for creating original content.

Ease of prep? Video games take a team of people to pull off. There are many technical jobs in creating video games with non overlapping skill sets for example creating 3d models versus painting textures versus coding ai versus coding a graphic engine and so on. Since the beginning tabletop roleplaying has enabled referees to present a detailed setting that can be prepared within the context of a once a week hobby.

This combined with the flexibility of the human referee, and the social aspects of the game are tabletop roleplaying strengths in the 21st century. These are features are not the strength of computer roleplaying games or MMORPGs.

However as pointed out the convenience of solo play is a huge factor in gaming. And people figured out how to create a compelling role-playing experience on a computer. Not all CRPGs are good but enough are so that people keep being new games in the genre. The combination to make the CRPG industry several order of magnitude larger than the pen & paper tabletop industry.

And that OK, because with 21st technology tabletop RPGs can be indefinitely support as long as there is interest. The hobby doesn't have to have an industry in order to thrive. If need be we can take care of supporting tabletop roleplaying ourselves.

And note that except for a few rare cases, minecraft for example, this not true of CRPGs.  It take a lot of resources to do a CRPG by 2016 standards.

Well yes and no depends on what you want for a video game for example the 1st harvest moon on the snes was made by 3 people in 3 months to be fair they where trying to save a project on the edge of being caned.
The real question is how grand do you want it and how long will it take to make.

Quote from: kosmos1214;914774Well yes and no depends on what you want for a video game for example the 1st harvest moon on the snes was made by 3 people in 3 months to be fair they where trying to save a project on the edge of being caned.
The real question is how grand do you want it and how long will it take to make.

The modern example is Minecraft and Angry Birds. But success is like the lottery and is pretty much nickles and dimes otherwise especially relative to the AAA releases.

While there are niches in video games that a small team can chip away at and earn a living, it pretty consumes their time. It is not a situation where you go to a group of friends and say "Hey lets code up some Neverwinter Nights and play!". Tabletop roleplaying takes several orders of magnitude less prep then the most basic of computer games. The best illustration of this is to take what you do to run a campaign in Roll20 vsersus Bioware's Neverwinter Nights. Roll20 a lot easier and more flexible than NwN because all it tries to is serves as an alternate means of communication for what happens face to face. While the automation, looks, and capabilities of NwN are incredible it comes at a huge cost in flexibility and prep time.

Another way of looking it at is using Dwarven Forge during a tabletop session. It looks great and you can build all kinds of stuff with it. But doesn't drag out the setup and it doesn't build everything that it is possible in a setting. I always have the option of falling back to dry erase or theater of the mind. The same with Roll20. However with NwN I am stuck with the Dwarven forge and I have to use it to run the campaign. If I want to do something different, I have to the software equivalent of carving a new model, casting the mold, finally cast the pieces and wind up painting the stuff. It doable but it will consume all my hobby time.

Quote from: estar;914811If I want to do something different, I have to the software equivalent of carving a new model, casting the mold, finally cast the pieces and wind up painting the stuff. It doable but it will consume all my hobby time.

Actually it's much easier than that.  NWN is the equivalent of having a large number of prefab dungeon pieces and monsters you can repaint with a mouse click and place however you like.

Where you are correct is that if you want a bit of dungeon dressing or a monster that you don't already have, you're going to have to build it from scratch.

Right. This is why PC/Console games and MMOs cant yet achieve the levels a real RPG can.

Great for telling stories and handling the mechanics virtually invisible. But you are on even more of a railroad than the worse of tabletop railroads with a few notable exceptions.

On the other hand. Some MUDs and systems like Second Life can work for NPC'less RPing where everything is player generated. They tend to collapse though eventually. More like an electronic LARP. Though with the system restrictions.

Quote from: daniel_ream;914823Actually it's much easier than that.  NWN is the equivalent of having a large number of prefab dungeon pieces and monsters you can repaint with a mouse click and place however you like.

Where you are correct is that if you want a bit of dungeon dressing or a monster that you don't already have, you're going to have to build it from scratch.

While technically you are right that the pre fabs and textures are a "mouse click" away. That is all in the prep, during an  actual session the software inflexibility rears its ugly head. At best it is as fast as a well organized set of dwarven forge. Often what you want to do is impossible during a active multiplayer session.

Quote from: Omega;914842Right. This is why PC/Console games and MMOs cant yet achieve the levels a real RPG can.

I don't agree with that. My view is that they are distinct forms of roleplaying game with strengths that the one has that the other is weak in  and vice versa. That in total, the strength of CRPGs and MMORPGS make that form of roleplaying game more popular.  A CRPG can be just as compelling for roleplaying an individual character as a tabletop campaign however it is achieved by different means. And more importantly in a way that doesn't appeal to everybody hence why tabletop roleplaying still has appeal.

Quote from: Omega;914842Great for telling stories and handling the mechanics virtually invisible. But you are on even more of a railroad than the worse of tabletop railroads with a few notable exceptions.

It not a railroad if you correctly anticipate how the vast majority of people will respond. The trick with plots in CRPGs and even LARPS is to make people WANT to go down the road and build in just enough flexibility to handle a variety of responses. This is characteristic of a  well crafted CRPG and a well organized LARP event

And so you know this is based on actually me trying to pull this stuff off not some theory bullshit I came up with. The main problem is that in the end it still involves a human being, me, guessing at what people will do so I can prepare for it. With tabletop it is easy for me to switch gears to respond to something unexpected that the players do. With CRPGS like Neverwinter Nights or LARPS like NERO it not that easy outside of a limited range.

Also with tabletop, I can deal with the true oddball player, the player that doesn't act completely rationally. There is a number of reasons why this happens. It is neither good or bad when this occurs. The point it does happen and tabletop roleplaying can handle this far more easily and seamlessly than CRPGs or LARPS. If this how the players mostly plays then it is highly unlikely a CRPG or MMORPG will satisfy them.

Also make it even more complicated, its matters what form the roleplaying game takes. There are people that would have a lot of fun with how a CRPG like Dragon Age plays out but really dislike the fact they have to do everything via a keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Or a game controller and at tv screen. The same with LARPS, the costuming and makeup can be really good at time however at the end of the day it is still costuming and makeup for some it destroys the experience. Then there are more subtle variation like a person would be fine with out Dragon Age operates but despises how Neverwinter Night is setup with the keyboard and mouse. A person loves the social roleplaying of LARPS but considers boffer combat and the magic system to be terrible.

In the end it can be made to work for a large group of people, but it will never work for everybody. None of the different forms of roleplaying game will be THE roleplaying game to play. But they are in the end all roleplaying games where you are playing individual characters interacting with a setting.
 

Quote from: Omega;914842On the other hand. Some MUDs and systems like Second Life can work for NPC'less RPing where everything is player generated. They tend to collapse though eventually. More like an electronic LARP. Though with the system restrictions.

To make Neverwinter Nights work for a campaign, I had to treat it like how I ran my LARP events. After that I got it to work like a champ within its limitations.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;912114Designing for forums, I think, isn't a terribly good approach. In RPG discussions on forums, people tend to use best and worst case scenarios, and they often say things just to win an argument (so it isn't like their players are standing behind them to confirm or contradict what they just said). To me, 4E is an example of what can happen when you design around forums and around RPG theory.

Anyone in doubt of that, or who doubts that RPGnet was always extremely pro-4E, should read the current 5E threat on that site. It's full of 4E fans complaining about 5E, and has descended into the usual minutiae-obsessed theory-wank. The lack of self-awareness is remarkable. 5E has been successful because it didn't follow 4E down the rabbit-hole of balanced mechanical calibration of all aspects of the game.

I'll stick to doing play-reports on my blog.